Fuel fumes

[happy39]

Does anyone have an idea how can manage gas fumes coming from my car. I built this 1954 ford Ranch Wagon with a 2005 Roush 4.6 supercharged motor. I had Ricks tanks in Elpaso TX build me a tank with in tank fuel pumps. For a fuel filler I grabbed a capless filler neck from a 2013 ford escort. I ran the vent from the tank to the filler neck vent area. When I have the car in my shop I usually don’t smell anything but we are now in our condo inFlorida with an attached garage and momma is not happy with the smell. I’m thinking a charcoal filter might help but I’m not sure how to plumb it. Any thoughts? Thanks

[DanStokes]

An evap canister plumbs into the vent line with the bottom of the canister being the tank vent. The purge plumbs to the intake - I forget if it goes to a ported or unported vacuum source but a look at a factory intake plumbing guide should turn up that info. I'd grab a can, bracket, and associated purge valve bits complete from a donor car so you get a system and not just random parts. Dave G may be able to add some of the details that I'm fuzzy on but yes, it should help.

Dan

[dave.g.in.gansevoort]

An evap canister plumbs into the vent line with the bottom of the canister being the tank vent. The purge plumbs to the intake - I forget if it goes to a ported or unported vacuum source but a look at a factory intake plumbing guide should turn up that info. I'd grab a can, bracket, and associated purge valve bits complete from a donor car so you get a system and not just random parts. Dave G may be able to add some of the details that I'm fuzzy on but yes, it should help.

Dan

Dan's on the mark here. I believe it hooks to unported vacuum, i.e. below the throttle plate. Someone correctme here please, it's been a while...

And since I bet your Roush engine is capable of it, you probably want to get a canister purge valve to match the engine, keep it a system as designed by Ford. This won't affect performance, and will imperceptibly improve mileage, if that matters. The brain should be able to control an electric purge valve making it a seamless setup. And keep SWMBO happy with you...

[happy39]

You guys are the best I’ll keep you posted thanks

[DanStokes]

On Stanger I just kept the factory system when I went to the 5.8 and it seems to work groovily. Therefore, I didn't have to fret my pretty little head over purge valve details, etc. so I'm fuzzy on that. No doubt Dave's right and there's an electronic purge valve that's a match for that engine. BTW - we NEED pics of that wagon! Some of us are only semi-literate.

Don't know if you picked up on this but Dave and I are both retired from the vehicle emissions field, me as a tech for the EPA and Dave as an engineer for the EPA and later for the State of NY.

Dan

[happy39]

This is what we are working with Hope these help!

[DanStokes]

Excellent! Like that a lot!

Dan

[dave.g.in.gansevoort]

WOW! Just WOW! At a loss for words...

[happy39]

This is what I currently have. I researched the ford setup and they reference a tank pressure switch in their diagram. I am using a Ron fransis engine management system to the computer. The problem I see is how to trigger a purge valve. That is why I was thinking can I put some sort of canister just in the vent line between the tank and filler neck? At 70 plus years old this is the first ground up car I built so I am on a steep learning curve. All my car builder friends are all older and think I’m crazy for what I have done up to this point. Many days I agree but why not push yourself to learn. That’s why I seek advice.

[DanStokes]

Seventy five later this week and still learning here!

In your diagram you would cap the vent in the filler neck and run the vent line off the pump to the canister with a new purge line up to the engine from the purge valve to "empty" the canister while the engine is running so the carbon has more room to collect vapors the next time you shut the engine off.. The Ron Francis folks ought to be able to tell you what to do with an electronic purge valve as they're fairly common these days. I bet there's an off-on signal coming out of the computer somewhere. Good looking build!

Dan

[happy39]

Thanks Dan I have a solid Ford wiring diagram for the computer. I was in error about the RF system it is for engine wiring harness tha eventually hooks in to the Mustangs computer. I think I had to make 119 connections on that board before the computer you answered a big mystery for me by capping the filler vent.
thanks again

[pagyl]

I think the only effective way to manage fumes coming out of our cars is to replace them on EVs, but I'm not ready yet.

[dave.g.in.gansevoort]

Wow you two are getting old! Im still in the 60s, okay by a couple of years...

Seriously, like both of you and everyone else on this site, trying to learn something new every day. Maybe someday Dan will even be able to teach me a little bit about painting...

I'm not holding my breath

[Loren]

I love that wagon.

]
can I put some sort of canister just in the vent line between the tank and filler neck? .

I can't think of a good reason to not have the charcoal cannister back near the filler neck instead of up in the engine compartment, but the vent coming out of it has to go to engine vacuum so the vapors get sucked through when appropriate, kinda like flushing a toilet with your engine intake being the sewer line. Just having the can there, vented to the filler neck or wherever that is going to only see normal atmospheric pressure, it will saturate once and that'll be the end of its' function. With the can in the rear of the car you'd just have a long vacuum line going probably alongside the fuel supply line up to the engine, instead of the long tank vent line going to the can in the engine compartment then a short vacuum line to the engine as normal.

I have a can in the Challenger just 'cause I hate smelling gas and grew up as a mild asthmatic in Los Angeles and anything that keeps the smog down is good with me. In that case there is no purge valve, it just uses a very small opening and acts like an always-present vacuum leak, not that the motor makes much vacuum anyway. To use the toilet analogy again, it's like it's running a little all the time instead of the sudden high-volume flush. Not optimum but it actually works OK, meaning you notice neither anything wrong with the engine running, or gas fumes. If you can't come up with something to trigger a purge valve and the computer doesn't need to think it has one you could just do that, again using a tiny enough hole that it doesn't affect anything much...better than nothing at-least, or just to get half the problem solved for now until you could make the valve happen. Presumably you'd have to plumb either ahead of the supercharger so that boost isn't blowing back into the can during that temporary condition, or use a one-way check valve to prevent that.

Edit: After some thought, if you did such a thing I think I'd plumb under the supercharger and have the check valve. If anything ever blew up from some kind of fume accumulation backfire (all unlikely, but still...) I'd rather have it happen down there and not take out a bunch of intake piping.

All just thoughts.

[DanStokes]

Loren, you're right, it can be in the rear. Some OEMs have done that on some models and it works fine. I think the underhood placement was just because it was generally handier and probably cheaper for the manufacturer.

Dan