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Degree cam in car

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  • #16
    You need a solid lifter (iirc one for intake , one for exhaust) to replace the HYD. one while degree'n the cam with the wheel.
    Just remember to remove it after you are done. First time I degreed a cam I cough, cough left the solid lifter in and only found out after starting cam break in. Bucker moment as you never want to stop break in. but I had no choice.
    So, don't be like me, and forget to remove the solid lifters after degreee'n cam.
    My degree kit cam with everything but the solid lifters, It is a comp cams branded degree kit.
    Last edited by 2020 mustang; November 24, 2023, 03:52 AM.

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    • #17
      Short follow up with where things stand..


      I'm going to probably start tearing the accessories off/shroud/fan/etc this weekend. I was digging around in the CSM the other day and noticed a way to check cam timing via distance from top of pushrod to retainer seat (something like that, I'd have to read it again). Not in the manner of that method to avoid using the wheel, but would that allow me to not have to pull the intake & swap lifters? Granted, I understand this is a hydraulic lifter engine so there will be 'some' give under pressure I'd imagine, but I'd think it'd be consistent if strictly measuring..right?

      If I had a 2-ton hoist, this whole debacle pisses me off anyway to the point where I would've just yanked it all back out and made the assembly shop fix it. I'd even be there for the dyno run to make 100% sure the numbers were where they needed to be (timing/compression/vacuum) as well as finally get the power numbers that I paid for last time (I paid for the dyno and results but he only broke it in-never made a pull). I'd looked at modding the HF 1-ton hoist I have, but I can't bring myself to risk it.
      '69 Oldsmobile 442
      '18 Jeep Grand Cherokee (wife's vehicle)
      '20 Ram 1500 BigHorn (my daily)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by brotherGood View Post
        Short follow up with where things stand..


        I'm going to probably start tearing the accessories off/shroud/fan/etc this weekend. I was digging around in the CSM the other day and noticed a way to check cam timing via distance from top of pushrod to retainer seat (something like that, I'd have to read it again). Not in the manner of that method to avoid using the wheel, but would that allow me to not have to pull the intake & swap lifters? Granted, I understand this is a hydraulic lifter engine so there will be 'some' give under pressure I'd imagine, but I'd think it'd be consistent if strictly measuring..right?

        If I had a 2-ton hoist, this whole debacle pisses me off anyway to the point where I would've just yanked it all back out and made the assembly shop fix it. I'd even be there for the dyno run to make 100% sure the numbers were where they needed to be (timing/compression/vacuum) as well as finally get the power numbers that I paid for last time (I paid for the dyno and results but he only broke it in-never made a pull). I'd looked at modding the HF 1-ton hoist I have, but I can't bring myself to risk it.
        Is there a rental shop that you could rent an engine hoist from? I have even seen rental gantrys available in some rental places....
        Patrick & Tammy
        - Long Haulin' 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014...Addicting isn't it...??

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        • #19
          369 for a 2 ton.... maybe return it when you are done? https://www.harborfreight.com/automo...ane-58755.html
          Patrick & Tammy
          - Long Haulin' 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014...Addicting isn't it...??

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          • #20
            I've kicked around also just tossing my current one on Marketplace and basically paying half price for the 2-ton..ha.

            I've not checked local rental places, but that's actually not a bad idea either.
            '69 Oldsmobile 442
            '18 Jeep Grand Cherokee (wife's vehicle)
            '20 Ram 1500 BigHorn (my daily)

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            • #21
              Well..got this done yesterday without too much of a headache (though, smacking my head with the ratchet when it slipped off the crank bolt did hurt)

              Pulled the alternator, valve cover & rockers for cyl #1. After reverifying TDC on the balancer, I marked another 10 before and after the mark on the balancer. Starting at TDC, I turned the engine over until the pushrod showed .050 on the dial indicator (intake side). After conferring with the engine builder who has helped me through this mess, its 16 retarded which he is thinking is due in large part to the timing set currently installed. It was a new double roller set (not sure on brand) but he has encountered problems with quite a few double roller sets.

              Hopefully the new timing chain will be in soon, and I can swap it out and with any luck-it runs as expected finally
              '69 Oldsmobile 442
              '18 Jeep Grand Cherokee (wife's vehicle)
              '20 Ram 1500 BigHorn (my daily)

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              • #22
                ok, 16 degrees is a HUGE hit. i was thinking it was off 2, 4, maybe 6 degrees. but 16 degrees?!?!?!!! yikes..........

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by fatguyzinc View Post
                  ok, 16 degrees is a HUGE hit. i was thinking it was off 2, 4, maybe 6 degrees. but 16 degrees?!?!?!!! yikes..........
                  Yeah, my money was on 6 or 8.. but not double that. Lol.

                  In talking with the builder who had been helping (Note: NOT the one who assembled it) he said to just put the new (better quality) chain at 0 and call it a day. Technically it'll still be 2 retarded (cam sheet calls for 108+2) but it'll be night and day compared to 16
                  '69 Oldsmobile 442
                  '18 Jeep Grand Cherokee (wife's vehicle)
                  '20 Ram 1500 BigHorn (my daily)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by brotherGood View Post

                    . Technically it'll still be 2 retarded (cam sheet calls for 108+2) but it'll be night and day compared to 16


                    look for an "offset woodruff key" (dunno if they make for olds but ive bought for pontiacs and chevys)
                    that will let you advance cam 2 or 4 degrees if it needs it....

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by fatguyzinc View Post



                      look for an "offset woodruff key" (dunno if they make for olds but ive bought for pontiacs and chevys)
                      that will let you advance cam 2 or 4 degrees if it needs it....
                      I'd thought about something like that, or just simply advancing it 2 degrees with the 9-keyway set that'll be going in.
                      '69 Oldsmobile 442
                      '18 Jeep Grand Cherokee (wife's vehicle)
                      '20 Ram 1500 BigHorn (my daily)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by brotherGood View Post

                        I'd thought about something like that, or just simply advancing it 2 degrees with the 9-keyway set that'll be going in.
                        Glad you found a problem which sets you up to fix it. I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I went to all the effort to pull a cylinder head on the Mustang and found it to be OK - so NOW whet do I do to fix the overheating?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by DanStokes View Post

                          Glad you found a problem which sets you up to fix it. I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I went to all the effort to pull a cylinder head on the Mustang and found it to be OK - so NOW whet do I do to fix the overheating?
                          As am I. The amount of back and forth, money spent (intake gaskets changed a few times, new carburetor thinking my old one had an issue, etc) and just time spent scratching my head. I suppose that's what I get for assuming the assembly shop was spot on-even though upon installation it was realized that he had the distributor 180 out (and now after getting an understanding for the timing chain process-I can see why).

                          Good luck with your overheating "adventure". As someone who makes a home in the "assumed wrong" category, I completely understand how frustrating it is to go through and take a big swing thinking that's you're answer..only for that not to be the case.
                          '69 Oldsmobile 442
                          '18 Jeep Grand Cherokee (wife's vehicle)
                          '20 Ram 1500 BigHorn (my daily)

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by DanStokes View Post

                            Glad you found a problem which sets you up to fix it. I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I went to all the effort to pull a cylinder head on the Mustang and found it to be OK - so NOW whet do I do to fix the overheating?
                            wrong head gasket?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by anotheridiot View Post

                              wrong head gasket?
                              Sadly no but thanks for asking. The car sat for 14 years and I suspect it has loos rust build up throat the cooling system but I AM guessing. The cooling system has been flushed several times but I still get visible crud when I drain it. Probably going to take the ol' boy to our radiator shop in town (we still have a radiator shop!) and have them do a professional purge of the cooling system and radiator.

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                              • #30
                                Not much of an update, but the new chain/gaskets should be here today. I'm going to get the heater fired up Friday morning before heading to work, and hopefully Friday night get the accessories/radiator top plate off and out of the way, so that Saturday it'll be nice and warm and I'll just need to pull the rad/timing cover/balancer and swap the new in.

                                I'm hoping to accomplish this without removing the oil pan. 600 miles on the build, hopefully the oil pan gasket is still somewhat pliable.
                                '69 Oldsmobile 442
                                '18 Jeep Grand Cherokee (wife's vehicle)
                                '20 Ram 1500 BigHorn (my daily)

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