Timing settings for quicker warm up.

[TheSilverBuick]

Now that I have greater control over the ignition, with cool features like advancing and retarding timing with coolant or intake air temperature I was thinking about what settings would be best for quicker idle warm up.

With the weather the morning temps are routinely in the 20's*F and only a matter of time for teens and single digits, so if I start the car first thing in the morning and letting it idle what would be the best route to warm it up quicker?

I have two lines of thought here, more ignition advance for easier cold idle running and higher rpm, but I've "heard" that retarding the timing will warm the engine up quicker, providing you can keep a steady (hi-)idle.

Thoughts for warmup? Advance the timing? Retard the timing? Why's would be appreciated too

I'm mainly concerned about cold idle rpm, ~700-1200rpm.

[urwurznitmahre]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

oil and block warmers..
a 12 volt batt and a small solar panel to keep the batt charged and a timer..
;D

[JeffMcKC]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

complete burn builds heat, retarded timing means heat out the exhaust thats why the header gets so hot.

[urwurznitmahre]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

complete burn builds heat, retarded timing means heat out the exhaust thats why the header gets so hot.

if only a lean mix would not miss in the cold weather

[JeffMcKC]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

a LEAN MIX DOES NOT ALWAYS BUILD HEAT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE FUEL TO MAKE HEAT( sorry cap lock work)

I used to race Karts in the day, I had a motor that ran like crap once, I kept leaning it in because it had no cyl head temp, till it died I thought that lean it should have stuck it ???, came back re-set at starting point on carb ( must have counted wrong first time, I counted by 1/2 turns) It built heat, and yeah I stuck it as I leaned it in from the rich end this time ( this is why I took 3 motors per class and spare pistons) , this took a while to figure out, but has stuck with me.

[urwurznitmahre]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

a LEAN MIX DOES NOT ALWAYS BUILD HEAT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE FUEL TO MAKE HEAT( sorry cap lock work)

I used to race Karts in the day, I had a motor that ran like crap once, I kept leaning it in because it had no cyl head temp, till it died I thought that lean it should have stuck it ???, came back re-set at starting point on carb ( must have counted wrong first time, I counted by 1/2 turns) It built heat, and yeah I stuck it as I leaned it in from the rich end this time ( this is why I took 3 motors per class and spare pistons) , this took a while to figure out, but has stuck with me.

i UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT i WAS THINKING IN THE RELM OF COLD STARTS..(OPPS CAPS,SORRY)
lean mix compaired to the 12 or 11 to 1 , when you start

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

Depending on the temperature, the car starts usually around 12.5:1 AFR@~25*F air temp (I'd have to go through some datalogs to see what the coolant was....), then by a coolant temp of 60*F it's up around 13.5:1 AFR. Then around 120*F it's usually good at 14.0+:1 AFR.

So assuming 25*F and 12.5:1 AFR and 1000rpm idle (no load). So we aren't disscussing fuel (unless I'm way off base with the 12.5:1 AFR).

Jeff, the advance is at 25* at idle, so would you say more would help? I could probably take it to an absurd 40-something.

Mark, I park in the shade ;D And lean burns I believe only generate excess heat when under big loads, I'm not so sure it'll build heat under idle, at least not anymore than a richer burn.

[urwurznitmahre]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

Depending on the temperature, the car starts usually around 12.5:1 AFR@~25*F air temp (I'd have to go through some datalogs to see what the coolant was....), then by a coolant temp of 60*F it's up around 13.5:1 AFR. Then around 120*F it's usually good at 14.0+:1 AFR.

So assuming 25*F and 12.5:1 AFR and 1000rpm idle (no load). So we aren't disscussing fuel (unless I'm way off base with the 12.5:1 AFR).

Jeff, the advance is at 25* at idle, so would you say more would help? I could probably take it to an absurd 40-something.

Mark, I park in the shade ;D And lean burns I believe only generate excess heat when under big loads, I'm not so sure it'll build heat under idle, at least not anymore than a richer burn.

learn something every day

[JeffMcKC]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

With no heat in the motor or chamber you might add some then back it off with temp as it comes up It may be worth a try, This I have never worried about most of my stuff lacks a heater LOL

I will say when Geek tuned my latest set up, it cracked right off, and idled great when it was cold, but I had him lean it out so I would have to baby it till it got heat in it.

I think it was rich enough it was spoiling the plugs to the rich mixture, so when it runs on the edge it would have carbon tracks to follow till the plugs cleaned up, like a car that always runs better on the second pass.

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

I know I'm kind of splitting hairs by asking to warm up quicker since I already have it starting ok and don't have to baby it cold.

Any others?

[Smack]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

I do alot of work in canada and will have to agree with urwurzt, block heater.

Come out in the morning, fire it up, it's already warm and rearin to go.

[dieselgeek]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

Randal -

the answer to your question should be pretty easy to find out by datalogging on two separate (but equally cold) mornings.

My guess is that the timing won't matter nearly as much as target idle speed. idle at 1200rpm I bet it warms up real quick-like. Since you have idle control (kinda wish I had that on Jeff's car, he doesn't mind having to maintain a fast idle with his foot - but I am used to replacing carbs AND the BS associated with them. lol)

[JeffMcKC]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

I got to make it look like I am doing something

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

I got to make it look like I am doing something

Haha, I hear you Jeff. When I first got this car running earlier this year it felt like I was a man trying to control a wild beast with all the attention the car needed to stay running, not bog, it was real rumbly, just rough all around. Now it's almost docile, it idles low, it's quieter, etc.

Good idea Scott, I already hook the laptop up to data log the drive to work so I could easily hook it at start up and make the CLT/IAT timing modifier changes as the temperature deems necessary.

[milner351]

Re: Timing settings for quicker warm up.

more combustion events per unit of time means more heat....

how much control of idle speed post start up do you have?

Is it just a table of coolant temp vs idle speed?

I would bump the speed up a bit more as Scott suggested - even 2000rpm is not out of the question as long as the engine builds oil pressure quickly.

Block heaters sure are nice though!

On the luxury theme you're on now (it's a Buick after all) - how 'bout heated seats?