Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

    Originally posted by CarPlayLB
    Supposedly the TCI constant pressure valve body will keep you from burning up the tranny due to incorrect TV cable adjustment, but the TV cable is still used to adjust the shift points. The 700r4 I have now seems like it does not respond to changes in TV cable position.
    My tranny is set up to hydraulically lock the converter above 55MPH...but that is less than ideal. It does not always unlock. When I do a new tranny, I am going to go the old fashioned way and hook up to manifold vacuum and the brake pedal to unlock the converter and allow downshifts..is there a better way?

    INDY...thanks for this! Trans stuff is VooDoo magic to me...you are impressive...great write up!
    A lot of it depends on how it's set up. Most ways lock up will come on at the same time as 4th gear and will stay locked unless, it's wired through a brake switch (then will release when the brake is touched), or the trans downshifts out of 3rd. Yours I believe is not wired and has the mods done so it all works hydralically and behaves just like you explained.

    The Bowler Transmission's lock up module will engage lock up 8-10 seconds after 4th gear. So instead of one big rpm drop, it's becomes two without the big drop in rpm. Works much better. The way it should imo.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

      Originally posted by Bamfster
      What are your thoughts on the full manual valve body for the 700?

      I have done several gov adjustments (weights and springs) and I have finally resorted to using 2 different govs. One for racing (full throttle shifts @ 6200 and part throttle @ 4300) and a street one that shift @ 2800 for cruising etc. I'm thinking about the manual VB and just shifting all the time....thoughts?
      I don't think you need a manual valve body. You can still get it to work the way you want. Just takes time and patience. I have moded several governors to get better WOT shift points. The problems I have sometimes is it can make the 3rd to 4th shift too late at part throttle. Sometimes I have corrected this by cutting a coil of the 3-4 shift valve spring in the valve body. Or if your lucky enough to have a big assortment of valve bodies, you may be able to find a lighter spring to use. Valve bodies are all calibrated to a particular make, model, engine size, gear ratio, ect. A 700 valve body in a vette is not the same as one in a caprice. I can't tell you how to find one that works best. You just have to play with it till you get it right.

      B&M offers governor weight kits that work well in calibrating governors.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

        Originally posted by IRONHEAD
        how much ft lb it'll take after the rebuild...
        as I'm up in the air with od in truck 200r4 700r4 or gearvendor off a th350 or 400
        I'm guessing at 450-500 ft lbs. Depends on how the vehicle is driven. Sticky tires? Weight of the vehicle?
        The 4L60E in my big block Camaro has several thousand miles on it without a problem. Not using drag radials though.
        Had a customer in a 03 Hummer H2 supercharged that couldn't keep a 4L60E in it. He ended up buying a kit to replace it with a 4L80E. So far he hasn't ruined it yet.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

          Originally posted by IndyShiftman
          Originally posted by Bamfster
          What are your thoughts on the full manual valve body for the 700?

          I have done several gov adjustments (weights and springs) and I have finally resorted to using 2 different govs. One for racing (full throttle shifts @ 6200 and part throttle @ 4300) and a street one that shift @ 2800 for cruising etc. I'm thinking about the manual VB and just shifting all the time....thoughts?
          I don't think you need a manual valve body. You can still get it to work the way you want. Just takes time and patience. I have moded several governors to get better WOT shift points. The problems I have sometimes is it can make the 3rd to 4th shift too late at part throttle. Sometimes I have corrected this by cutting a coil of the 3-4 shift valve spring in the valve body. Or if your lucky enough to have a big assortment of valve bodies, you may be able to find a lighter spring to use. Valve bodies are all calibrated to a particular make, model, engine size, gear ratio, ect. A 700 valve body in a vette is not the same as one in a caprice. I can't tell you how to find one that works best. You just have to play with it till you get it right.

          B&M offers governor weight kits that work well in calibrating governors.
          B&M is the gov kits that we use. I've had the gov in and out at least 50 times fine tuning the shift. When I get to where I like it for the strip, the part throttle shift is 4300 rpm for both the 1-2 and 2-3 shift. 4th gear is way out there @ 5100. That's too much rpm for me on the street. I have a separate gov set up that I swap in when I know I'll be street driving/cruising or in the off season. It shifts nice n crisp at 2800 under part throttle but way early (5100) at WOT.

          I may try taking a coil off of the 3-4 shift valve spring to catch 4th gear sooner ....
          Whiskey for my men ... and beer for their horses!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

            Originally posted by efi-diy

            The first time you pull a 700 apart you'll wonder where the bottom of the parts pile is... compared with a 3 spd like a th350 lots more parts...

            Jeff,

            I do have a question though..

            I have a fully built 2wd 4L70e with the best of factory and aftermarket parts in it except the 300M output shaft. How much torque can I put through this before its gets angry?

            Currently at about 500 #/ft @ 10 PSI boost... going to turn the wick up shortly.
            Your probably right about there. Are you running slicks or drag radials? Traction kills transmissions. What vehicle is it in? Weight has a lot to do with it too.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

              Originally posted by Bamfster
              Originally posted by IndyShiftman
              Originally posted by Bamfster
              What are your thoughts on the full manual valve body for the 700?

              I have done several gov adjustments (weights and springs) and I have finally resorted to using 2 different govs. One for racing (full throttle shifts @ 6200 and part throttle @ 4300) and a street one that shift @ 2800 for cruising etc. I'm thinking about the manual VB and just shifting all the time....thoughts?
              I don't think you need a manual valve body. You can still get it to work the way you want. Just takes time and patience. I have moded several governors to get better WOT shift points. The problems I have sometimes is it can make the 3rd to 4th shift too late at part throttle. Sometimes I have corrected this by cutting a coil of the 3-4 shift valve spring in the valve body. Or if your lucky enough to have a big assortment of valve bodies, you may be able to find a lighter spring to use. Valve bodies are all calibrated to a particular make, model, engine size, gear ratio, ect. A 700 valve body in a vette is not the same as one in a caprice. I can't tell you how to find one that works best. You just have to play with it till you get it right.

              B&M offers governor weight kits that work well in calibrating governors.
              B&M is the gov kits that we use. I've had the gov in and out at least 50 times fine tuning the shift. When I get to where I like it for the strip, the part throttle shift is 4300 rpm for both the 1-2 and 2-3 shift. 4th gear is way out there @ 5100. That's too much rpm for me on the street. I have a separate gov set up that I swap in when I know I'll be street driving/cruising or in the off season. It shifts nice n crisp at 2800 under part throttle but way early (5100) at WOT.

              I may try taking a coil off of the 3-4 shift valve spring to catch 4th gear sooner ....
              That's what I would do. This is a common deal. I have ran into it several times.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

                Originally posted by TubbedCamaro
                Hey Indy I've got a question. It's about my '99 Z28 I had the trany done a year ago, install a TransGo HD2 shift kit, along with the servo's and even replaced the plastic servo pistons in the valvebody with the aluminum pinless type. Plus I installed all new electronics even the main wiring harness and I also installed a 3800rpm stall converter. Anyway everything seems to work right, except one thing, I have my lockup set to engage at 38mph in 4th gear, which it does do, but sometimes it'll lockup and then like a 1/4 of a mile later it'll unlock and not lockup for a maybe another mile. Which then it'll lockup and stay locked up. Also somethings when taking off from a light I can take it up to like 50mph and it won't lock up until I've drive for a 1/2 mile or so. Is this normal operation??, are there other factors in the trany itself that determine when the lockup is suppose to happen or is it just commanded by the computer. I'm just wondering if I might have a faulty lockup solenoid.
                TC I think the computer is telling it to do that. If it had a bad solenoid, there would probably be a trouble code stored. I'd put a scanner on it and drive it while watching the data. TPS voltage and coolant temp readings are critical. If you have a bad temp sensor, it can tell the computer the engine is too cold and will disengage lock up till warmer temps are found. As long as it is locking up, that may be normal.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

                  Awesome photojournalism there Indy !!
                  ;D

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

                    Originally posted by IndyShiftman
                    Originally posted by TubbedCamaro
                    Hey Indy I've got a question. It's about my '99 Z28 I had the trany done a year ago, install a TransGo HD2 shift kit, along with the servo's and even replaced the plastic servo pistons in the valvebody with the aluminum pinless type. Plus I installed all new electronics even the main wiring harness and I also installed a 3800rpm stall converter. Anyway everything seems to work right, except one thing, I have my lockup set to engage at 38mph in 4th gear, which it does do, but sometimes it'll lockup and then like a 1/4 of a mile later it'll unlock and not lockup for a maybe another mile. Which then it'll lockup and stay locked up. Also somethings when taking off from a light I can take it up to like 50mph and it won't lock up until I've drive for a 1/2 mile or so. Is this normal operation??, are there other factors in the trany itself that determine when the lockup is suppose to happen or is it just commanded by the computer. I'm just wondering if I might have a faulty lockup solenoid.
                    TC I think the computer is telling it to do that. If it had a bad solenoid, there would probably be a trouble code stored. I'd put a scanner on it and drive it while watching the data. TPS voltage and coolant temp readings are critical. If you have a bad temp sensor, it can tell the computer the engine is too cold and will disengage lock up till warmer temps are found. As long as it is locking up, that may be normal.
                    Thanks, man.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

                      BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech Part 2, reassemble

                      The last thing I'm going to do before I wash the case is remove the internal linkage nut and clip so I can remove the linkage and pry the manual shaft seal out. There is a tool to remove the seal without removing the linkage. But I'll show doing it this way. Less likely to damage the seal when installing the new one.


                      Before the case gets washed.


                      After 15 minutes of washing.


                      Governor bore looks good. Shows marks but no major wear.


                      Here is a hard part layout of the bottom section.


                      Ready to install case bushing. The notches in the bushing face toward inside the case and should be placed parrallel to the bottom. (horizonally)


                      Tool for installing bushing. Just like installing cam bearings.


                      After bushing is tapped in.


                      Here is the overhaul kit with clutches.


                      Need the two wide cut and one square cut O rings for the low/reverse piston.


                      And the spring tool and snap ring pliers.


                      There are two snap rings in this transmission that are similar. The one on the right is wider and is used in the reverse input drum. The narrow one on the left is the one I need now for the low/reverse piston.
                      They can get mixed up.


                      We use Transjel assembly lube. There is red, blue, gold. Doesn't matter. You can use vaseline if you want.


                      Install the O rings on the low/reverse piston and lube em up.


                      Notice the notch in the case.


                      The locating tab on the piston will need to fit in the notch in the case. Set the piston down inside. Rotate back and forth and you will be able to feel when the tab is fitting the notch. Tap the piston down till it bottoms out.


                      Install the spring pack and locate the spring tool in the case. Depress the spring all the way down and slide the snap ring under the tool. Use the snap ring pliers to install the snap ring. It takes practice.
                      When done, it will look like this.


                      Use transjel to hold the torrington bearing to the bottom of the rear ring gear assembly and set down into the bottom of the case.


                      Do the same with the rear planet. The torrington bearing on the rear planet has a tall inner lip on it.
                      Drop it down into the ring gear.


                      Looks like this.


                      Now ready to drop in the low/reverse clutches.


                      Start off stacking with a steel plate. I'm using black kolene coated steel plates. Good for a little extra grip.


                      Then a friction plate, steel, friction, steel, friction till you used up all five and you end up with a friction plate on top.
                      Notice the little step in the case.


                      Find this clip that came out of the case when you pushed the center support out during disassembly.
                      This is a anti rattle spring for the center support.


                      Place it on the step that I mentioned and hold it in place with transjel.


                      Next get the center support. Notice the little ramps on the inner diameter.


                      Place the low/reverse roller clutch in the center support. Align the tabs on the clutch to the ramps on the support.


                      Install the snap ring and inner race.


                      Rotate the inner race clockwise till it slips together.


                      Done. Now set the support down into the case. It will only go in one way. Align it with the lugs and push down till it bottoms out.


                      Center support snap ring.


                      Install the snap ring and push it all the way till it touches the anti rattle spring. Old timers taught me to build 350's this way. I guess it may give the spring a little more resistance.


                      Next drop the rear sun gear down into the planet.


                      Find the four tab nylon thrust washer and place it on the inner race on the support. Make sure there is no metal embedded into the plastic. Replace if there is metal particles.


                      Now it should look like this.


                      Beast sun shell vs factory shell. Beast is on the left, oem is on the right.


                      The beast is slightly thicker.


                      More meat around the splines also.


                      Drop the shell into the case, matching the splines on the rear sun gear. The sun gear should be slightly below the shell. Add the four tab bronze thrust washer to the top side of the shell. Wear pattern on the washer looks worse in the pic. Washer has normal wear and is ok to reuse.


                      Place the front ring gear and reaction shaft down into the case. I polished a small wear pattern on the shaft. Came out fine.


                      Again, use transjel to hold the torrington bearing to the front planet and then drop it into the front ring gear.


                      New front planet to output shaft retaining snap ring comes in the kit. You may be able to tell the the snap ring ends are cut at an angle. The pointed end will face up. You get a better grip with your snap ring pliers this way. You will thank me if you have to take it back apart. Easier to remove the snap ring. And this is true with all snap rings.
                      Next you will need to push the output shaft up through the rear of the trans till it goes through the front planet. Then put the snap ring in place.


                      Snap ring installed.


                      Drop in front sun gear.


                      This section is done!






                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

                        The arrows definately help highlight what you are talking about. Besides to crazy skill to remember how to pull these things apart and reassemble, it also blows my mind that someone was able to actually design this thing! Thanks for posting
                        Escaped on a technicality.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

                          Originally posted by TheSilverBuick
                          The arrows definately help highlight what you are talking about. Besides to crazy skill to remember how to pull these things apart and reassemble, it also blows my mind that someone was able to actually design this thing! Thanks for posting
                          I was thinking the same thing reading through Indy's writeup. It would actually be neat to learn how about how the modern automatic trans came about but I'll save that for a rainy day, lol.

                          Excellent pics and explanations, Indy. ;D

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

                            Holy Guacamole Indy !!!

                            Excellent pics and write up.
                            Whiskey for my men ... and beer for their horses!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

                              First time poster, long time lurker...should probably introduce myself in the introduction thread...

                              Anyways, enjoying reading this and the TH400 you did.

                              I rebuilt a CD4E in my garage a couple years back. For those that don't know, the CD4E is a 4 speed used in Contours and 4 cyl Mazda 626s along with a few other vehicles. It is regarded as probably one of the top 5 worst transaxles ever. A lot of comes from a poor supporting cooling system.

                              So after doing that and comparing your build, couple questions for ya...and this comes from the fact I was probably overly anal because it was my first tranny overhaul.

                              1) Is it necessary or is there a method to air check the pistons for movement? Looks like the pistons are easy to install on the 700R4, I had to use the plastic sleeve tool because of the lip on the seal for the CD4E. No way I could do it without risk of tearing a seal.

                              2) Do you check the gap between between the big snap rings and the clutches and steels?

                              3) How in the heck would one rebuild the planetary? Drill out the rivets and then what?

                              All in all looks quite doable with only a few special tools. Oh yeah, wish I had a spring compressor tool. I made up one with some PVC and some threaded rod. Was a bear to install/remove snap rings but it worked.

                              The part that always amazes me about autos is not so much the internals, but the valve body design.

                              Thanks.




                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: BANGshift 700R4 rebuild tech part 1

                                Originally posted by kmax
                                First time poster, long time lurker...should probably introduce myself in the introduction thread...

                                Anyways, enjoying reading this and the TH400 you did.

                                I rebuilt a CD4E in my garage a couple years back. For those that don't know, the CD4E is a 4 speed used in Contours and 4 cyl Mazda 626s along with a few other vehicles. It is regarded as probably one of the top 5 worst transaxles ever. A lot of comes from a poor supporting cooling system.

                                So after doing that and comparing your build, couple questions for ya...and this comes from the fact I was probably overly anal because it was my first tranny overhaul.

                                Thanks for the compliments everyone. It is fun to do but takes a lot of time. Last night took me probably two hours in doing a 15 minute job. Getting the parts, cleaning the parts, laying them out, taking multiple pictures of each phase. Forgetting half the crap I was going to do, ect...

                                And there is tons more info on these transmissions that I can't cover here. I am just trying to show things that will help someone who is trying to do one on there own. So if there are any questions, I'll try and answer as quickly as possible.

                                1) Is it necessary or is there a method to air check the pistons for movement? Looks like the pistons are easy to install on the 700R4, I had to use the plastic sleeve tool because of the lip on the seal for the CD4E. No way I could do it without risk of tearing a seal.

                                2) Do you check the gap between between the big snap rings and the clutches and steels?

                                3) How in the heck would one rebuild the planetary? Drill out the rivets and then what?

                                All in all looks quite doable with only a few special tools. Oh yeah, wish I had a spring compressor tool. I made up one with some PVC and some threaded rod. Was a bear to install/remove snap rings but it worked.

                                The part that always amazes me about autos is not so much the internals, but the valve body design.

                                Thanks.
                                It's always good to air check. Not nessessary depending on how confident you are. I'll try to show later on doing that.

                                I do check the clutch clearance. 700's usually come out fine with factory spec clutch plates. You have to go by the year of the trans to make sure you get correct clutches and steel plates.

                                The planets can be rebuilt by pressing the pinion gear pins out. Then they are pressed back in and tack welded in place. We don't do it here but buy rebuilt planets from our suppliers.

                                And CD4E's do suck. Expensive and usually cost more than the car is worth.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X