'64 Riviera Brake Adventure

[CTX-SLPR]

So it begins...

The front aluminum drums on my Riviera work alright but the hoses have issues and I'm converting to discs eventually so I'm not going to throw more money at a system that's going to be replaced. The hang up is that the discs I'm going to eventually are way too big for a 15in wheel and even though I can get the 18in wheels I want for not too much, tires aren't cheap so I have to compromise.

Here's what I'm doing for a 15in wheel disc that uses the current parts I have.
Rotors: 73-87 C10 HD (2 3/4in rear shoes) rotor/hubs; they share the same wheel bearings as the Riviera and are 1.25in wide like the C6 rotors I'm eventually using
Spindles: 68 Riviera; interchanges with the early 63-65 Riviera spindles but is symmetric with a bolt on steering arm so I have an unused set of bolts to mount the caliper to
Calipers: Nissan Skyline R32 4piston calipers; I don't like floating calipers because of asymmetric pad wear I've noticed, these share the same 1.25in rotor width as the C6 rotors and are basically just wider 300ZX Turbo units to easily serviceable

I've got the parts and rough mocked them up so I know they'll fit together, now I just have to clean the spindles and calipers then build the brackets out of plate steel. Follow along and be sure to make suggestions on improvements to my mounting design.

[Brian Lohnes]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

Man, that is a neat collection of stuff you are piecing together.

I'll be watcing for sure.

Brian

[Bamfster]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

Bill .... how the heck did you figure that out?!?! How close are those spindles, etc to GM A body stuff?

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

Bill .... how the heck did you figure that out?!?! How close are those spindles, etc to GM A body stuff?

That's what I keep wondering! Then I remember he's a physcist and fabricator. I look forward to pictures because I have no clue how that stuff will go together, but if he says they will, I'll look forward to seeing how.

[jays67]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

MMM and what are you doing with the aluminum drums? ;D

[horsewidower]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

Pictures, need pictures on this one.

We've got the family '67 that I will need to eventually restore. I need to look through my notes but I recall that someone makes a bolt up kit for these later spindles.

But, like you, I prefer to figure something else out. And it looks like you'll be leading the way.

Bob

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

Bill .... how the heck did you figure that out?!?! How close are those spindles, etc to GM A body stuff?

That's what I keep wondering! Then I remember he's a physicist and fabricator. I look forward to pictures because I have no clue how that stuff will go together, but if he says they will, I'll look forward to seeing how.

Lots of time spent looking through catalogs and enthusiast links of specs on parts. The rotors are well know (to us) for their use in the Scarebird bolt on conversions and are also shared with the 71-76 B-bodies. I found the eventual C6 rotors by hanging out with the RWD Impy SS guys who had a vendor Kore3 start modifying the C5/6 rotors for use with the stock spindles and either turned down stock rotor/hubs or billet units. Because I don't like the floating C5/6 calipers as mentioned above, I went looking for 32mm/1.25in wide rotor users and stumbled across the R32 Skyline calipers on a 300ZX upgrade listing then found a set on eBay. The spindle idea I got from Steve Strope who used a factory 2nd Gen (66-70) Riviera spindle and disc brake package on his '64 "Tiki Riv" car. I just took it a bit farther to use more modern rotors and my own caliper.

As to the similarity to the A-body for spindles.... none, Riviera is an X-frame rear steer chassis. The rotors are the same thickness as the F-body LS1 conversion that's popular and the C5/C6 corvette units but the wheel bearings and bolt pattern are full sized not intermediate.

MMM and what are you doing with the aluminum drums? ;D

Probably going to sell them as I don't have any use for them and they aren't special enough to want to hang onto for "originality" sake. I've got enough parts that are questionably in that category hanging around as it is. Will have the whole backing plate, wheel cylinder, and drum/hub assembly as a take off. Even spindles if you're interested but I doubt that.

Pictures, need pictures on this one.

We've got the family '67 that I will need to eventually restore. I need to look through my notes but I recall that someone makes a bolt up kit for these later spindles.

But, like you, I prefer to figure something else out. And it looks like you'll be leading the way.

Bob

Pictures hopefully this weekend when I can do a full mock up, not just pieces one with another. Your Riviera has the later spindles and could have had discs. There are a few bolt on kits, Scarebird is the most common while there are a few others listed in the back of the Riview (ROA owners mag). I also speced out a more commonly available version of this kit as well using the light duty C10 rotors and the 300ZX turbo calipers but I'd have to fit them together to make sure my assumptions are correct. If the caliper and rotor thickness match, it should use the same bracket as my Skyline design meaning you could upgrade if you found a set.

[horsewidower]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

Yeah, its a pity. My Father-in-Law originally spec'd the car with the disc brakes, but was told he'd have to wait six months to get them, or get the drum brakes and get the car immediately. He couldn't wait, bummer.

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

whew , you should have called master power or eci

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

whew , you should have called master power or eci

And you call yourself a hot rodder..... Bellybutton Catalog Rodder is more like it!

[Tazracing]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

if you have to service the "not sold in usa" skyline calp.. then what..
from what I take from your post it's a wider 300turbo z part..
if so why not use the early c-10 1" rotor and use the sold here turbo z calp. so servicing isn't a nitemare

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

if you have to service the "not sold in usa" skyline calp.. then what..
from what I take from your post it's a wider 300turbo z part..
if so why not use the early c-10 1" rotor and use the sold here turbo z calp. so servicing isn't a nitemare

The R32 Skyline caliper is identical to the Z32 300ZX Turbo caliper with the exception that the casting accomodates a 32mm rotor and all of them are aluminum. The pistons are the same, so are the seals, bleeder valves, brake lines, dust seals and pads. I don't anticipate trouble in servicing them unless something rather catestrophic happens. Thicker rotors are better heat sinks and this is an intermediate step on the way to 340mm (13.4in) front rotors from a C5 Z06 or 360mm (14.2in) Grand Cherokee SRT8 rotors which will fit behind 18in wheels that I don't have yet.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

Pictures!!

So this morning I ordered up a set of wheel bearing and spindle nut kit from Autozone and scrounged up a bolt that worked well enough to hold the spindle to the vise. Had to chase the threads in the spindle since I think I assembled it with the opposite set of holes used from when it was on the car.



The setup. Rotors are Centric Premium "Black" from Tirerack, $20 cheaper than Rock Auto. The clip keeps the rotor from rotating.


Looking down into the caliper, you couldn't go any smaller in rotor diameter before the caliper hit the rotor before the pads were fully over the edge of the caliper. You can see that I wired the caliper to the rotor to hold it in place, the cardboard under the caliper bridge spaces it up to the max you can before the pads go over the edge of the rotor but it's only 3/16in thick. Pads are Hawk HPS Ceramics, also from Tirerack.



The back side, the bottom bolt and caliper mount are only 0.050in out of plane from one another but I've not gone through and checked if the caliper is centered on the rotor yet. The top bolt hole on the spindle isn't machined on the back (rotor) side so I'd have to reach around to pick it up since I'm avoiding machining the spindle. The vertical distance there is 15/16in.


Looking down the guts of the setup. The backs of the caliper mount bosses are only 3/16in off of the back of the rotor.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

Been thinking what kind of steel plate to use for the bracket. I'm thinking either 1/4in or 3/8.

Current idea is to bolt the calipers to a flat plate that has a 1/8in (broke out the feeler gauges and centered the caliper last night so the out of plane distance changed) recess milled out for the lower spindle boss then cut and bend the material up to pick up the upper bolt boss with a welded support strut. 1/4in would work better for this since it'd be easier to heat and bend, otherwise I'd have to make an "ear" that got welded onto the plate. Not planning using the top bolt boss in this design but it'll be near perfect for when I switch to the C5/6 rotors since they are nearly flat vs the tall "hat" on C10 HD rotors.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: '64 Riviera Brake Adventure

Update, was working on planning the caliper bracket and came up with 3 basic designs. I'm limited in what I can do because I'm not going to modify the spindle or the caliper for this setup.
1. 1x2.25x6in billet block of aluminum that is milled down to fit the bottom and middle spindle bolts and then the two caliper pick up points. The ear for the middle spindle bolt would only be 0.25in thick, as would the upper caliper pickup ear due to spindle clearance
2. Use the same mounting points but make it out of 3/8in steel plate that's bent up to meet the middle spindle bolt and has a welded support piece to keep the bend split from flexing.
3. Use the lower and upper caliper bolts and 3/8in steel plate with an ~3/16in spacer block between the section for the lower bolt and caliper and the piece for the upper bolt

I'll draw up some pictures this weekend on the ideas. This will be so much easier when I go to the bigger brakes so the caliper pickup points are practically inside the spindle.