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Coil-on-Plug Coils

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  • #46
    Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

    It depends on what you want to do.

    For a v8:

    Crank trigger/sensor with 4 teeth is enough to run a distributor ignition, and bank/batch injection (where all injectors are fired together, or in two groups alternating).

    Crank trigger/sensor with higher toothcount and a "missing" tooth (Ford EDIS wheel is where it's at IMO) is enough to run wasted spark ignition, or coil-per-plug in wasted spark mode (fires coil every revolution, not every other) - injection wll still be bank or batch.

    Crank trigger/sensor with missing tooth PLUS cam sensor (tells the computer when the engine is on compression stroke versys exhaust) is enough to run SEQUENTIAL injection, as well as sequential ignition. (This is how LS engines are run from the factory).


    A 4 cylinder is a similar deal, but I'd recommend just getting it running with fuel control first, then add ignition using the stock distributor and an MSD6a, then finally upgrading to coilpacks and crank trigger. If you try doing all of this at once for your first EFI install, you're guaranteed enough headaches to want to quit it altogether IMO.

    Randal's approach was perfect, and he had almost no problems except a goofy component on his first MS board. But if you get a bad board from DIYautotune.com, which is uncommon, they're awesome about replacing it for you.
    www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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    • #47
      Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

      Originally posted by dieselgeek
      Randal's approach was perfect, and he had almost no problems except a goofy component on his first MS board. But if you get a bad board from DIYautotune.com, which is uncommon, they're awesome about replacing it for you.
      Yeah, and the T-bird still has an absurd amount of noise in the system, but it is drivable now. Actually I have been driving it around town lately. I got leads to the occilloscope Squirrel gave me, I need to try it out...

      The Skylark went smooth enough. Left the 4-pin module HEI to do ignition for a few thousand miles, then went to a 7-pin timing control. Though I never quite got something set right as I was not very kind to the module. I had occasional ignition problems with the module, so I went to reading straight off the pickup coil and using the MSD box. It was a learning experience, but I'd skip the 7-pin module from here out and go straight to either direct coil firing or ignition box from here out.
      Escaped on a technicality.

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      • #48
        Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

        Originally posted by TheSilverBuick
        Originally posted by dieselgeek
        Randal's approach was perfect, and he had almost no problems except a goofy component on his first MS board. But if you get a bad board from DIYautotune.com, which is uncommon, they're awesome about replacing it for you.
        Yeah, and the T-bird still has an absurd amount of noise in the system, but it is drivable now. Actually I have been driving it around town lately. I got leads to the occilloscope Squirrel gave me, I need to try it out...

        The Skylark went smooth enough. Left the 4-pin module HEI to do ignition for a few thousand miles, then went to a 7-pin timing control. Though I never quite got something set right as I was not very kind to the module. I had occasional ignition problems with the module, so I went to reading straight off the pickup coil and using the MSD box. It was a learning experience, but I'd skip the 7-pin module from here out and go straight to either direct coil firing or ignition box from here out.
        post up a datalog if you can, I'd like to see one with the noise happening.
        www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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        • #49
          Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

          ** Also, a lot of my noise issues early one, T-bird and Skylark, had to do with me wiring the WBO2 sensor's heater ground to the same place as the sensor grounds.


          Still a ton of general noise. I'll post one up I made a week or so ago. When I get some time and a freezing wind isn't blowing I plan on popping the alternator belt off and firing it to see if the noise goes away. I replaced the alternator after finding a busted winding contact inside it. That reduced noise a bit too. Something about a 40 year old electrical system designed to only worry about AM radio. Though there are at least three ground straps on it from the factory :P

          If the noise persists, I'm still eyeballing the tach signal as the source, though all sensors have a twitch to them. Power for the relay board comes straight from the battery.
          Escaped on a technicality.

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          • #50
            Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

            When all the sensors twitch, the thing I'd look at first is the Batt Voltage - see if it's bouncing and how much. That doesn't necessarily mean that the system voltage is actually bouncing - what the MS shows is the "difference in volts between ground and power"

            SO, if the battery voltage has spiking drops, it is likely voltage or noise getting into the grounds.

            It could be as simple as a broken porcelain on a plug, a bad coil wire, bad cap/rotor, etc. Ignition noise will usually have a pattern in the Battery Voltage data.

            www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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            • #51
              Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

              That could all be on the table, as there is a voltage twitch, and it's all over the place, from two tenths to two volts. That's why I want to elimate alternator first. I've tried isolating the power and ground wires feeding the relay board.

              I haven't done the "Look under the hood while it's running at night" test for arcing.
              Escaped on a technicality.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

                whould sheilded cables(wires) help with the noise

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                • #53
                  Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

                  Originally posted by Tazracing
                  whould sheilded cables(wires) help with the noise
                  about 1% of the time in my experience. It's always better to identify the source before making changes. The best way to knock out these kinds of issues is to have a friend with an oscilliscope which will let you monitor grounds, +12, tach input, and many other circuits to ID the noise. I have an entry level scope for a PC that costs about $110. I have two very nice, old Tektronics scopes (that cost thousands new), one I got on ebay for $50 and another I got from a local HAM Radio operator for free.

                  Some people don't want to mess with a scope, that's when you find a buddy like Spidey who probably has a wicked $12,000 snap on scope or equivalent. Those are AWESOME but overkill.

                  www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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                  • #54
                    Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

                    Now let me get this right, first get the car up and running with the MS and the stock fuel system, using the stock distributor/ignition. Then after getting that part sorted out upgrade to the COP coils and then after sorting that all out, move to the SFI conversion.

                    Does that sound like a good game plan??

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                    • #55
                      Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

                      It's what I'd do.
                      Escaped on a technicality.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

                        X2

                        Baby steps allow you to debug each system as its added. The complexity of debugging when you throw it all on at the same time can be overwhelming.

                        Make sure the car is running very well on its stock components, do the usual tune-up, etc, before you start.

                        The game plan is to isolate the issues as you proceed. If the car is running well when you start, you know that the issues are not with the basic systems, then add and check, add and check.

                        Make sure that the grounding system on the car is absolutely top notch.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

                          Originally posted by horsewidower
                          Make sure the car is running very well on its stock components,
                          That's why when I built the engine, though I had 90% of the EFI components, I did the engine break in and first couple thousand miles of driving (~8,000) with the Q-jet and 4-pin HEI. Made real sure the mechanicals were solid.
                          Escaped on a technicality.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Coil-on-Plug Coils

                            Just go for it TC you dont chop a Dogs Tail off a inch at a time! ( thats how we did mine)
                            2007 SBN/A Drag Week Winner & First only SBN/A Car in the 9's Till 2012
                            First to run in the .90s .80s and .70's in SBN/A
                            2012 SSBN/A Drag Week Winner First in the 9.60's/ 9.67 @ 139 1.42 60'
                            2013 SSBN/A Drag Week, Lets quit sand bagging, and let it rip!

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