Which type of belts use the least power?

[CDMBill]

One the of recent magazines, I think it was Car Craft, had a short blurb on an SBC cog belt driven water pump/alternator setup that looked like a pretend blower belt set-up.

What caught my attention was dyno test where it was claimed that the cogged blower belt set used less power than a traditional v-belt. This got me to thinking about which types of belts are the most efficient. I ca't find the magazine the original article was published in and I'm not finding much on the topic.

I have three kinds of belts on the Mustang engine as it is: a Goodyear SuperTorque on the timing belt, a Jason Gilmer belt on the oil/vacuum pump, amd 6-rib serpentine style belts on the P/S and alternator.

If cogged/Gilmer or the Super torque or ribbed or V are most effiecnt I'd like to know.

Does anyone have definitive infiormation on this? Is it worth pursuing?

[JeffMcKC]

Bill to be blunt, you have so many other compromises made that will if corrected gain 10X what a belt will I would put my effort in other area's

[Barry Donovan]

efficient and belt .. seems weak and strong.

I still run double v-belt on 90hp. I learned the clutch fan works fully, the alternator is all there, and so is the water pump..

what part of efficient are you looking for?

[Stich496]

serp belt eats less than a v, the cog would be inline with the serp.. the v belt slides in the pully's friction and heat..
the other two, roll on top of pullys, cog might have better grip.. but at a big $$$$ cost

[TC]

One the of recent magazines, I think it was Car Craft, had a short blurb on an SBC cog belt driven water pump/alternator setup that looked like a pretend blower belt set-up.

What caught my attention was dyno test where it was claimed that the cogged blower belt set used less power than a traditional v-belt. This got me to thinking about which types of belts are the most efficient. I ca't find the magazine the original article was published in and I'm not finding much on the topic.

I have three kinds of belts on the Mustang engine as it is: a Goodyear SuperTorque on the timing belt, a Jason Gilmer belt on the oil/vacuum pump, amd 6-rib serpentine style belts on the P/S and alternator.

If cogged/Gilmer or the Super torque or ribbed or V are most effiecnt I'd like to know.

Does anyone have definitive infiormation on this? Is it worth pursuing?

I have that Cogged belt setup on my '71 Camaro, bought it probably 6 years ago, the guy that sells them sells them on Ebay, that is where I found them.........

As for power gain I have no proof of that, but it could be because the pulleys are smaller in size........

[Beagle]

Bill, I'm no engineer, but I think the OEM's answered this one already. If they could get less parasitic loss, they would be all over it. CAFE has it's benefits I guess. They give the nod to a serpentine. Even the centrifugal vendors don't step up to a cog until they have to, maybe money or packaging? You don't have as much tension on a serpentine as you have to have on a V for the same clamping power.

Their next answer? Electric motors. More efficient than a belt. I'm starting to see a lot of electric assist power steering.

[Cyclone03]

I'm somewhat with Beagle the OEMs have choosen "Poly V" belts for a reason,but...cog belts do cost more so maybe profit gets the nod. I would think a cog could be run with almost no tension,as long as it stays on place,even serpentines have to run in tension.

[CDMBill]

Bill to be blunt, you have so many other compromises made that will if corrected gain 10X what a belt will I would put my effort in other area's

I like blunt, always more to learn. I'm reworking front dress for new 200 Amp alternator, relocated P/S pump and radiator mounted water pump, so I have the opportuntiy to mess with them. At the moment I'm sticking with serpentine for P/S and alt.

PM sent.

[TheSilverBuick]

Their next answer? Electric motors. More efficient than a belt. I'm starting to see a lot of electric assist power steering.

I'm not sure about it being more efficient when in use, but has the advantage of being turned off, and not loading the engine at all, while cruising on the highway when assist isn't needed.

[captthundarr]

Don't see how a belt change could improve engine output. Belt changes can improve accessory output but parasitic loss is still a loss. pulley diameter changes will improve engine output.

[TC]

I like blunt, always more to learn. I'm reworking front dress for new 200 Amp alternator, relocated P/S pump and radiator mounted water pump, so I have the opportuntiy to mess with them. At the moment I'm sticking with serpentine for P/S and alt.

PM sent.

Hope you have a really small pulley on that alternator.......200amp alternators put crap amperage out at idle......I went though all that when I tried to put a 160 amp alternator on my '99 Camaro, at idle the gauge would only show about 12 volts, even dipped into the red zone when the A/C was on..........

Going with at bigger alternator is like going with a bigger cam, you lose low end output...........

[Stich496]

Bill, I'm no engineer, but I think the OEM's answered this one already. If they could get less parasitic loss, they would be all over it. CAFE has it's benefits I guess. They give the nod to a serpentine. Even the centrifugal vendors don't step up to a cog until they have to, maybe money or packaging? You don't have as much tension on a serpentine as you have to have on a V for the same clamping power.

Their next answer? Electric motors. More efficient than a belt. I'm starting to see a lot of electric assist power steering.

OEM'S went serp. because of warranty, the serp. puts less stress on the bearings of the water pump and p/s pump and alt. so they all last longer, and one belt is cheaper than 2 or 3.. and when you add that savings to millions of cars a year,, bean counters are happy campers

[CDMBill]

Hope you have a really small pulley on that alternator.......200amp alternators put crap amperage out at idle......I went though all that when I tried to put a 160 amp alternator on my '99 Camaro, at idle the gauge would only show about 12 volts, even dipped into the red zone when the A/C was on..........

Going with at bigger alternator is like going with a bigger cam, you lose low end output...........

The alternator dyno card that comes with the alternator shows that it will output 140 amps at 2400 alternator RPM (idle) and 202 at 7500 Alt. rpm that they call highway speed. With my pulley ratio it'll spin @ 2700 at idle. It uses an exciter wire which I already have so I should be good to. It's limited to 18,000 rpm, although Powermaster tech said a little over won't hurt during a drag strip pass. At 7500 engine speed it'll be spinning a bit shy of 17,000. Old MSD unit hit 25,000 so I'm hoping the parasitic loss will be the same.

[TC]

The alternator dyno card that comes with the alternator shows that it will output 140 amps at 2400 alternator RPM (idle) and 202 at 7500 Alt. rpm that they call highway speed. With my pulley ratio it'll spin @ 2700 at idle. It uses an exciter wire which I already have so I should be good to. It's limited to 18,000 rpm, although Powermaster tech said a little over won't hurt during a drag strip pass. At 7500 engine speed it'll be spinning a bit shy of 17,000. Old MSD unit hit 25,000 so I'm hoping the parasitic loss will be the same.

What rpm do you idle at, I think that was my problem, my car idles at 650rpm, which means I'd need a 4 to 1 pulley ratio to make that alternator work..........Though your car probably doesn't pull the Amps that my Car pulls with the A/C on at idle......Funny thing is I tried a 105 amp alternator and it did the same thing, but when I went back to the 102 amp that my car calls for, it holds the volts up at idle and works like is suppose to..........Ya go figure..........Anyway just sharing what happened to me, hope it works better for you.........

[chevy3100truck]

The simple answer is the belt with the least tension has the lowest parasitic loss, but what I'm interested in is why you need such massive alternator output..... I'm assuming electric water pump, fuel, fans? 2800 watts is just about 4hp @ 14v (not that I think the 2hp over a 100a will make any difference at your power level). (not sure what efficiency is on auto alternators, I'm guessing it's decent)