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  • #16

    Re: Tuners Room...

    Re: Tuners Room...


    Possible light bulb going on. Would an 8 plug 2.3L Ford would do it? I may have the exact setup on our '93 4 cyl convertible. I have worked on so many of the OEM stuff through the years it all runs together. I wish I could see it, but as I remember there was a crank position sensor with a reluctor on the crank, an EDIS ignition module with the 4 twin out coils, and whole system getting ground from the EEC.

    When you say that you like inductive better, do you mean a basic Kettering central distribution system? If so, do you think I should just stay with my Duraspark/MSD module and coil distributor? They have been dead reliable, but the EEC IV OEM systems around are pretty tasty looking, and holy crap they run forever. The 2.3L convert has over 200,000 miles, and all that has been done is timing belts, a water pump, just normal maintenance.

    Thanks for the reply. The Megasquirt would be a very good solution, it may be what I go with if I can overcome my junkyard fever. ;D
    Bill - An EDIS module would work OK for you, but it'll also run at locked timing unless you use either a Ford EEC computer to send it the necessary, one-wire "Spark Advance Word" (conveniently labelled SAW on a wiring diagram) to control timing advance. You are correct, the 36-1 EDIS wheel and reluctor sensor would need to be mounted on your crank pulley/balancer/whatever.

    Honestly, though, I think the EEC / EDIS combo just for ignition would be more parts, and more tuning work, than necessary. To get your own timing curve you'd need to use Tweecer or similar tuning tools to modify the spark tables in the EEC computer. THis alone will cost as much as a basic megasquirt. What I'd do in your position is find myself a set of Ford 4-tower coilpacks, OR a pair of Mitsubishi 4-cyl coilpacks and their mating Ignitors(the hottest OEM coils that were ever made, and easily found in junkyards on Hyundais, Chryslers, Mitsubishi, etc.)... then mount the EDIS wheel and reluctor. Feed the reluctor signal straight into your megasquirt, and have the megasquirt control the ignitors / coils directly. The reason not to use an EDIS ignition module is: they have a fixed RPM rev limit, and you cannot use ignition features with it such as 2-step rev limiting, boost builder, etc.


    What we're describing here is exactly what's been set up on Chad Reynolds' "Rusty" wagon. The only difference is that we upgraded from a reluctor sensor, to a GM Crankshaft Positon SEnsor reading the EDIS wheel. Because the GM sensor has built-in electronics to convert the magnetic signal to a square wave output, which is less noise-sensitive. Chad, do you have any pics of your setup online?? Bill should see this.



    -scott
    www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

    Comment


    • #17

      Re: Tuners Room...

      Re: Tuners Room...

      I'll be watching this forum with interest. I need to learn how to tune, or at least modify in the correct direction, the chip for a heavily mod'd '93 LT1 motor. 396 ci and aiming (hoping??) for 500 + streetable hp. It's going into a '55 chevy. First time venturing into the world of efi for me. Reading everything I can find.
      Aloha,
      Willy
      Not many people still have the ability to tune '93's. They are still chip cars, and most of the burner programs won't run on XP. The shop I used to work at had it running on an old 386 laptop with 3.1 windows, because everything else was actually too fast for the slow moving program. There are some other chip tuning mail order places, but mail order is not the real thing. You can PM me the details of your motor, I can give you a good idea was what you'll need. 500fwhp is doable though with an lt1, have you thought of just switching to a ls1 motor in your lt1 car, that makes 500rwhp a breeze

      Comment


      • #18

        Re: Tuners Room...

        Re: Tuners Room...

        Here's a question for you expert carb tuners . . .

        Can someone "school me" on Holley main emulsion well size and shape? Why do Holley metering blocks have a slight taper in the bottom of the main well between the jet and the lowest emulsion hole? How does size (diameter) of the main well and cross channels effect the emulsion characteristics of the carb? And how does fuel type come into play? (ie: alcohol vs gas)

        The reason I ask is because I have modified a couple metering blocks for E85 fuel and have increased main well and cross channel size appropriately (at least what I believe to be appropriate) but I have not duplicated any taper in the bottom of the main well (kind of hard without a tapered drill bit). Since winter is here in Michigan, I won't be able to test any of my mods until spring.

        Thanks

        Eric

        Comment


        • #19

          Re: Tuners Room...

          DOHC Vortec 4200 - Turbo camshafts << reccomendations needed

          I'm building a turbocharged Vortec inline 6 4200 ( DOHC 4 valves/hole) and am looking for some help with the cam profiles from some of the turbo folks here. The turbo is a GT40.

          End goal is to make 600HP and still have some driveability ( e.g. cruise at 2500 and not be rude in traffic).

          The short is getting well built to take boost.

          Any help appreciated.

          Marc

          Comment


          • #20

            Re: Tuners Room...

            Re: Tuners Room...

            Scott,

            Ok since you mentioned it - what is the rev limit on EDIS?


            Possible light bulb going on. Would an 8 plug 2.3L Ford would do it? I may have the exact setup on our '93 4 cyl convertible. I have worked on so many of the OEM stuff through the years it all runs together. I wish I could see it, but as I remember there was a crank position sensor with a reluctor on the crank, an EDIS ignition module with the 4 twin out coils, and whole system getting ground from the EEC.

            When you say that you like inductive better, do you mean a basic Kettering central distribution system? If so, do you think I should just stay with my Duraspark/MSD module and coil distributor? They have been dead reliable, but the EEC IV OEM systems around are pretty tasty looking, and holy crap they run forever. The 2.3L convert has over 200,000 miles, and all that has been done is timing belts, a water pump, just normal maintenance.

            Thanks for the reply. The Megasquirt would be a very good solution, it may be what I go with if I can overcome my junkyard fever. ;D
            Bill - An EDIS module would work OK for you, but it'll also run at locked timing unless you use either a Ford EEC computer to send it the necessary, one-wire "Spark Advance Word" (conveniently labelled SAW on a wiring diagram) to control timing advance. You are correct, the 36-1 EDIS wheel and reluctor sensor would need to be mounted on your crank pulley/balancer/whatever.

            Honestly, though, I think the EEC / EDIS combo just for ignition would be more parts, and more tuning work, than necessary. To get your own timing curve you'd need to use Tweecer or similar tuning tools to modify the spark tables in the EEC computer. THis alone will cost as much as a basic megasquirt. What I'd do in your position is find myself a set of Ford 4-tower coilpacks, OR a pair of Mitsubishi 4-cyl coilpacks and their mating Ignitors(the hottest OEM coils that were ever made, and easily found in junkyards on Hyundais, Chryslers, Mitsubishi, etc.)... then mount the EDIS wheel and reluctor. Feed the reluctor signal straight into your megasquirt, and have the megasquirt control the ignitors / coils directly. The reason not to use an EDIS ignition module is: they have a fixed RPM rev limit, and you cannot use ignition features with it such as 2-step rev limiting, boost builder, etc.


            What we're describing here is exactly what's been set up on Chad Reynolds' "Rusty" wagon. The only difference is that we upgraded from a reluctor sensor, to a GM Crankshaft Positon SEnsor reading the EDIS wheel. Because the GM sensor has built-in electronics to convert the magnetic signal to a square wave output, which is less noise-sensitive. Chad, do you have any pics of your setup online?? Bill should see this.



            -scott

            Comment


            • #21

              Re: Tuners Room...

              Re: Tuners Room...

              .............. have you thought of just switching to a ls1 motor in your lt1 car, that makes 500rwhp a breeze
              Nawww, I have already spent too much on this motor, ported trick flow heads from Lloyd Elliot, expensive internals, 4 bolt mains, ported and upgraded intake system, other fancy stuff.....
              It's almost complete, just got a set of fuel rails that will fit the '93 intake.....
              And I have a T56 trans I am reworking to put behind this motor....

              I don't have any objection to changing to a newer computer control system and either staying with speed density or adding a maf sensor and going to that style system. Just trying to learn what might work best. I've been looking around for a later ('94 up) wire harness I might be able to use on this motor. I do have a '93 system on hand. Just trying to learn what is possible and what might work best. I understand the problems with the '93 chip system, I do have an old laptop running windows 3.1, use it to tune the stand-alone 4L80E trans controller in my '55 chevy half ton 4x4. But haven't tried any chip work yet.
              Aloha,
              Willy

              Comment


              • #22

                Re: Tuners Room...

                Re: Tuners Room...

                Scott,

                Ok since you mentioned it - what is the rev limit on EDIS?

                7200rpm on most units. It's a PITA to figure out which EDIS module has what rev limit. Some of them are 6000rpm modules. There used to be a nice website about EDIS hardware that would tell yuo aprt numbers but it's long gone - and a quick search turned up nothing for me.


                The benefit of EDIS is that it's dead nuts reliable. The downside is the lack of ignition control, quetionable rev limits, non-adjustable dwell for boosted applications or if you want to run hotter coils, etc. But as far as setting one up on any 4, 6 or 8-cyl engine - hell they're easier than a distributor if you ask me!

                -scott
                www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

                Comment


                • #23

                  Re: Tuners Room...

                  Re: Tuners Room...

                  .............. have you thought of just switching to a ls1 motor in your lt1 car, that makes 500rwhp a breeze
                  Nawww, I have already spent too much on this motor, ported trick flow heads from Lloyd Elliot, expensive internals, 4 bolt mains, ported and upgraded intake system, other fancy stuff.....
                  It's almost complete, just got a set of fuel rails that will fit the '93 intake.....
                  And I have a T56 trans I am reworking to put behind this motor....

                  I don't have any objection to changing to a newer computer control system and either staying with speed density or adding a maf sensor and going to that style system. Just trying to learn what might work best. I've been looking around for a later ('94 up) wire harness I might be able to use on this motor. I do have a '93 system on hand. Just trying to learn what is possible and what might work best. I understand the problems with the '93 chip system, I do have an old laptop running windows 3.1, use it to tune the stand-alone 4L80E trans controller in my '55 chevy half ton 4x4. But haven't tried any chip work yet.
                  Aloha,
                  Willy
                  Looks like you spent a little bit. The limiting factor will be your opti, there's not really any problem with running the 93 SD setup, just getting the chip burning equip to do it. The SD setup is much easier to work with on the lt1 stuff, and its good for mucho power, more than you'll make with that setup. Whats the cam specs?

                  Comment


                  • #24

                    Re: Tuners Room...

                    Re: Tuners Room...

                    I don't have pics up of Rusty's setup. I will get some up this week though. As Scott knows, I love it. No need for the optispark this way. Mine is just a simple mandrel I had machined that holds the edis wheel. Then a simple bracket to hold the GM Ls crank position sensor and your all done. My system is controlled by an EMS Pro which is Megasquirt based. Go megasquirt and you are good to go. This thing has been dead nuts reliable and very fun to play with. Stay tuned because we are going to do an injector swap, posi unit (mine is blown up) and hit the spray on Rusty. We're aiming for the 12's. Not bad for an old jalopy. Street race money should be easy to come by with that combo don't you think? Not that we here at CarJunkieTV condone that type of activity.

                    "A cross thread is better than a lock washer." Earl Lanning...My Grandpa

                    Comment


                    • #25

                      Re: Tuners Room...

                      Re: Tuners Room...

                      dont worry chad i know all the super secret spots we can hit up and have some fun. on top of it all i dont even think the "PIGS" will take a second look at you in your ride unless they see you in the act...lol...

                      Comment


                      • #26

                        Re: Tuners Room...

                        Re: Tuners Room...

                        2-loose, pay attention, Chad's is an LT1 like yours.

                        If you don't need trans control and can do a remote mount IAC (if you even need that), his setup is about $1100-1200 worth of stuff if you go with the warrantied, already-built eMS-pro; if you go the megasquirt route, you're talking about $700-800 in total parts. That would cover your EMS, wire harness, crank trigger and sensor, and ignition system.

                        it's a nice simple standalone that works,

                        -scott
                        www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

                        Comment


                        • #27

                          Re: Tuners Room...

                          Re: Tuners Room...

                          Thanks Scott,
                          I did upgrade the Opti to the later vented version, as I know the '93 non-vented Opti's did have some real problems. A lot of the later Opti's around here are still running just fine with no problems. I'll watch this closely. There was also a system that modified the ignition to a coil fire system (8 coils) like the LS setup, removing the high voltage from the opti, using it to fire the coils. Don't know much about it, but someone was touting it as a "cure" for the so-called Opti problems. $$ though....
                          The cam is a Comp Cam hyd roller, Duration: Intake: 236˚@ .050; Exhaust: 244˚@ .050; Lift:Intake: .585; Exhaust: .580; Lobe separation: 112˚
                          And no, I don't need a trans controller, T56 suits me just fine!
                          Thanks,
                          Willy

                          Comment


                          • #28

                            Re: Tuners Room...

                            Re: Tuners Room...

                            Has anyone gotten a Megasquirt to work controlling a water injection system that is boost sensitive on top of its fuel injection.

                            I am thinking of Megasquirting my Camaro if I keep it and ungrading the turbo to a 60-1.

                            Comment


                            • #29

                              Re: Tuners Room...

                              Re: Tuners Room...

                              Has anyone gotten a Megasquirt to work controlling a water injection system that is boost sensitive on top of its fuel injection.

                              I am thinking of Megasquirting my Camaro if I keep it and ungrading the turbo to a 60-1.

                              Yes, megasquirt can control water injection. The problem is, typical W/M injection setups are "on/off" so you end up just enabling a relay at a certain MAP pressure. THat's easy to do.

                              There is also a way to fire a PWM solenoid for variable injection but it's hard to find a solenoid that will live under methanol or water use, and as they wear out, they have different delivery rates for a givem PWM input... thus making the tune unstable. Better yet, there's a way to use the secondary injector driver and use injectors and pressurized supply (like a normal fuel system) to feed the mix into the intake. There are a lot of different ways to do it on megasquirt, mostly MS1-Extra software based.

                              -scott
                              www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

                              Comment


                              • #30

                                Re: Tuners Room...

                                Re: Tuners Room...

                                I was thinking of a small seperate fuel style system of a couple of injectors controlled by the MS. I have an ancient Edelbrock varijection system on it right now with a holley spread bore double pumper. Works ok, but I think with better fuel and spark control, I could safely upgrade to a larger turbo and not hurt the engine.

                                Comment

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