A natural turbo?

[Barry Donovan]

I am bored. its raining..44F with AC on. Maine. this time of year sucks.

I got to thinking of other insane things not written properly..

turbos. Today I was buzzing around in the tin can..15 minutes with 200w intake heater on. No controller yet, but a switch .Somethng huge happened. I noticed exhaust was getting very loud..and the gear shift rumbled. Giant power..very odd. did not care if it was raining.

if a heated geyser sends people running. why not heat an intake to be a superheated funnel. Expansion is the boost...vacuum is the pace. heat it right n the main feed from outside into whatever is working the fuel and intake. if to heat the whole volume would need a screen glowing red, and that hinders. I refer to heating outside of a pipe, let the full volume go unhinderd.
That is what I have set up now.

to claim fuel needs cold air, is like claiming it needs an icy spark plug.

just thinking, that is all.

[Loren]

As for inlet temperatures, it comes down to the density of what volume of air winds up in that cylinder when the intake valve closes (aside from detonation issues). More is better, and makes the bigger bang. Cold air is more dense, hot air less so, so better to feed in cold.

[Loren]

And why do you have the A/C on, at 44f?

[Barry Donovan]

And why do you have the A/C on, at 44f?

it was actually 57.
the yo yo begins..
it was freezing thismorning, now tropical stench.

as for volume and density. satisfying the heated source with volume way beyond needed at intake, valve allowance (cam)...see what I am deciphering?
of course cam timing would need to resemble a turbo time.

my point being. ..I satisified something with 3 inch steel, heated, then to carb..32mm intake. A huge unexpected result. I really like it. Air is all from outside, sealed duct to carb. even pcv uses it.

looking forward to controller..will keep at 15C (59-60F) +/- 5. Going too warm is a turbo booster. Volume of outside edges must be warm, inside must be a super slicked mass of density getting away from it...away from it, is cramming the carb of course. no where else to go.
a more interesting thing I have never encountered. leave it to the little self balanced boxer.

[TC]

Problem with a super heated intake is the fuel will vaporize and fuel vapor takes up a greater volume of space than a droplet of fuel does....... So the fuel vapor will actually displace some the air that is entering the cylinder and with less air(oxygen) to burn you will make less power.........

[Barry Donovan]

Problem with a super heated intake is the fuel will vaporize and fuel vapor takes up a greater volume of space than a droplet of fuel does....... So the fuel vapor will actually displace some the air that is entering the cylinder and with less air(oxygen) to burn you will make less power.........

true..but some are so tight it needs that space..again volume above carb..many times bigger than carb and intake going to heads. almost 5 feet before it gets to it I could guess. two feet just from fender plenum to intake heater over to carb.
its kinda like upside down concept of injection...big area version...except fuel atomizes. then crammed into tiny (32mm spanning the top of boxer) intake into heads. They did everything but give it a big intake. Leave it to asian to be just like that, became interesting anyway.

injection gets quite warm, pretreatment of air in plenum. A tighter knit world of the stuff I got going. I am in this realm inbetween first mainstream injections, a carb, and pieces of it all together. Simply interesting. never built.

I just knew I would encounter something bizarre..the intake heater must have been in my thoughts.

will keep fairly cool, but cold is useless. I also found when keeping intake heat on, fuel is saved, low end realm is much easier to drive. Don't need to be an old porsche driver to enjoy it...then when throttle opened big, the heater is overruled. Definitely dynamics unintentionally smart.

this is the setup that can find base of carb frosty with 38F outside. It is that bizarre while running.

[MR P-BODY]

this is the setup that can find base of carb frosty with 38F outside. It is that bizarre while running.

Frost is common on carbs at that temp(36*-44*)... its due to the
increased velocity going through the venturi ... back to your
original idea... dense air(cold and dry) packs more in, more in
with the right amount of fuel is a BIGGER explosion(power)...
why do you think that turbo cars like to run inner coolers.....
itmakes more power

[38P]

The "super-heated" intake was one of the alleged keys to Smokey Yunick's "Hot-Vapor Cycle" engine. Smokey claimed the turbo compressor was merely to keep the "working fluid" from expanding out of the intake and not for "boost." All of the pressure, Smokey claimed, was from heat expansion.

Here's something I posted years ago on the subject

HCCI ENGINES AND HOT VAPOR?


Automotive News has taken note of dramatically increased research on HOMOGENEOUS CHARGE COMPRESSION IGNITION ("HCCI") gasoline and diesel engines by Ford Motor Company and others.


Predicitons are that HCCI is five years away. Developing sufficient computerized control systems is the reported delay. HCCI in its current form uses direct injection, variable valve timing and preheated air to ignite a lean, homogenized air/fuel charge almost spontaneously through compression. Gasoline HCCI research engines typically are unthrottled, similar to conventional "stratified charge" diesel-cycle engines.

HCCI promises to increase part-throttle fuel efficiency and reduce NOx emissions.

Because HCCI works better in steady-state operations, spark ignition Otto-cycle combustion is retained in many research engines for high-demand acceleration situations.


Of course all of this talk of preheated, homogenized fuel mixtures and criticism of throttling losses reminds Speedzzter of racing legend Smokey Yunick's "Hot Vapor Cycle" engine. Twenty years ago, Smokey made waves with a three-cylinder Buick Skylark and an Iron Duke-powered Fiero, both converted to his proprietary "Hot Vapor Cycle" (See http://www.uspto.gov, patent numbers 4,503,833; 4,592,329; 4,637,385; 4,862,859; see also http://truckpower.com/tech_coolair.cfm)


The automotive intelligencia at the time dismissed Yunick's invention as a conunterintuitive hoax (remember, Smokey built his reputation, in part, on being a NASCAR and Trans-Am series "cheater," with such brilliant stuff as nitrous oxide-injected Hudson Hornet "stock cars" and various "7/8" scale models of "stock" Chevrolets.)

Yunick's patents reportedly were also tied up for years in litigation. In the end, no OEM bet on the Hot Vapor Engine as viable in an age of declining gasoline prices.

Of course, Smokey's "Hot Vapor" engine didn't have the "modern" benefits of direct injection, variable valve timing or high-speed computer technology. He relied on a simple draw-through carbureted turbo "homogenizer" and exhaust heat to vaporize the "working fluid" consumed in the Hot Vapor Cycle.

If Smokey were still around, Speedzzter suspects he'd be right in the thick of the current HCCI research craze, reminding everyone who would listen of his pioneering contributions to the concept. http://speedzzter.blogspot.com/2006/...un-at-www.html

[Barry Donovan]

that is interesting stuff.

out of a backyard trial and error myself..using exhaust as heat is a form of recycle..it will not gain, coolant is a bit better. nelson and his mirror turbos use water exchange. Subarus did too.
that is why intercoolers go extravagent..not the heat, it is the recycle transferring through the metals..steals alot. needs fresh source to let things move.

the whole motion knows its own ass and won't let go.
That is why I went external electric heat, needs a different source to do what they want for lean and clean..and that means gaining power of course. if it got stubborn, start power source from inside cabin, last second run over to heater from side of engine bay.

heat is a hoax. it is the physics of recycle that is the power kill.

if you erver notice,a fire setup to burn makes demands. That is how even a tiny intake can run a proper timed/non recycle engine.