1982 S-10 - Prostreet questions/upgrades?

[MattDuCharme]

Hi Guys, didn't see a newbie thread here so I guess I'll just post. Long time listener, first time caller

My dad has an '82 S10, with a 400 small block, TH350 and a narrowed 9" rearend. The current tires are old MT Sportsmen's (31x18.5x15 rear, 165R15 front). The tires are mounted on Weld wheels on all sides, and is set up the same as when he bought it several years ago. The rear end has 3.88's in it (we believe) and is mounted via leafsprings
There are a couple of issues with the truck that we would like to seek advice on:

1st is Drive-ability, on the poorly paved roads here, you can feel every bump and the truck "grabs" all marks in the road (not an issue on newly paved, because the truck is setup to go straight). Though the truck is setup to go straight, my Dad would like to be able to drive it a little more, or at least have it be more comfortable. Another notable issue here, is that he really gets very little traction with the combination of the tires and overall set up.

2nd is the stance of the truck, it has the classic pro-street rake to it, with the rear sitting higher than the front, and he would like to maybe lower the rear and change the stance, while at the same time improving the traction that he gets.

So, with the above issues called out, are there any recommendations that could be made to improve on the above? He was thinking of changing to a shorter tire in the rear, as well as a wider & taller in the front - any recommendations?

Any help or advise you can provide is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Matt.

[MattDuCharme]

I know you guys love pics, so here are some pics!

[STINEY]

Can you get us a picture of the front control arm/spring/bumpstop area?

Lots of these trucks were "lowered" by heating the front springs.........they end up sitting on or just above the bump stops and the ride is terrible.

I'm betting that's were your rake comes from as well.

If so the cure is easy enough, new front springs.

[BBR]

Pics of the suspension on both ends would be a big help.

[kyhunter89]

As the guys said, pictures of your suspension or some info will help. Your on the right track, Lowering the rear will make it look alot meaner. Nivce truck.

[Barry Donovan]

levelling is a start.. and trucks ride the front.

I'd be adding steel down low, x the frame in the middle.

get the front good the whole thing should be good. Those trucks even fullsize shortbed..its the same thing. maybe get some help from one of them.

I spoke up as my friend rolled a 84 shortbed, 327 end for end..coming back out of the abyss of doom repaired, levelling did a whole lot.
it is funny bout rake.. wagons are the only thing I found like it positive. everything else becomes a wing of some kind.

[DanStokes]

I agree that the suspension pics will help. My guess is that they lowered the front as mentioned and that the rear is pretty much stock. Look between the rear spring pack and the axle to see if there are any spacers and/or wedges in there. My S-10 has 2 approx. 3/8" spacers and I'm guessing a 4* wedge to put the pinion down about 4*. I plan to replace the shims with a 2" lowering block and retain the wedge but mine only sees track use.

The "right" way to lower that front is with offset spindles - see Belltech and others. Should be pretty common. The neat thing with lowering spindles is that everything stays the same in the suspension but the truck moves down by the spindle offset.

On the performance thing - see if there's a decent dyno shop in the area. Maybe some of our MI buddies can help here. Never spent much time on your side of the state so I don't know the shops over there. A decent dyno guy should be able to sort this out in an hour or two and while you could work thru it on the road it would take days and you would risk a nasty ticket. Remember to ask if they do carb'd vehicles - lots of the primarily Ricer shops don't know from Shinola about them there carbenaders.

Good luck, have fun, and welcome to the mayhem!

Dan

[MattDuCharme]

Thanks Guys, I'll get out to the shop today and try to take some pics of suspension on both ends. Biggest challenge is of course cost, which is why dad wanted to start with tires.

Do you think that a shorter tire in the back (say a 29?) and wider in the front would make any difference?

We've started talking about really digging into changing the suspension, but we would have to do it cheaply Thanks again!

[MattDuCharme]

ok, went out and took some pictures of the suspension, sorry the quality isnt great, used my cell phone and a flashlight

Drivers Side - Front End, There was ~4" of space from the upper bump stop that i could see.




Looking at passenger side of the Rear End, looks like it has ~3" lowering block used, but i did not see any wedge spacers in place:




Thanks again for your help!

[STINEY]

Well, that seems to rule out the torched front springs theory.

A 9" rear, very interesting.

You know, this truck sure reminds me of my buddys old S10. His had a 9", tucked bumper, same stance, etc.

He tracked it down a few years ago, trying to find it again ya know? It ended up in the Milan area with a guy I went to school with name of Danny Logan. It was painted silver but that could have changed.

If I PM you the serial number would you check it, just for giggles? Just curious at this point....

[MattDuCharme]

Sent you a PM. Yeah, the 9" is pretty stout, we think it has 3:88's in it, and we need to rebuild the clutch packs in the posi as well. The driveshaft is a pretty stout unit as well.

[Loren]

I would take a couple of guesses re: drivability issues...keeping in mind that a stock S-10 drives pretty decently, so what you'll be wanting is to get it dialed-back to where it's effectively closer to that again.

Lowering spindles are good. A-arm angles and thus roll center, all good. I would bet that there are still a couple issues there.

One is caster which is really important...stock specs are probably around 2 degrees, with that rake you might have less. If it were my truck I'd set it at 5 and get a lot better stability. I'd hope there are enough shims under the upper a-arm bolts to be able to switch them around front-to-back, to increase the caster...you don't even need to measure, just make sure the amounts are the same, and same for both sides. If the handling improves you know you're on the right track and it'll be worth having an alignment shop do it right. But again, I really like to increase that number up from stock and it will help make up for stability issues caused by the rear suspension (and frankly, the wobbly stock S-10 frame) and stock suspension components might not adjust that far. I think it's worth the trouble to cut the ends off the upper control arms and weld them back on rearward a bit, but most would not. Anyhow, just do whatever you can.

Secondly is the front wheel offset, even with that narrow wheel there is a lot of positive offset, figuring from the point where the steering axis hits the pavement to the center of the tire tread. Have a look under a stocker and check the distance from the inside wheel rim to the tie rod end, just as a reference...you'll see a big increase on your dad's. Having the tires stick out like that, they'll pull the truck around a lot more than you want. I know, a few hours of driving like that, and driving is less fun. There you have to spend some money, and get front wheels with more inward offset. If you could get a 6" rim with stock numbers (i.e. the additional width would all be going to the inside, until the rim edge was close to the tie rod like the factory made it), it would pull around a lot less...prove that one out by bolting on some stock 6" wheels with normal tires and drive it around a bit (I know stockers are 14" dia., not 15 like you want but will serve the purpose). With the wider wheels you could use some tires a little more up-to-the-job of road use, like P205-60s or something, but of-course if you've got bias tires in back you should have them in front if you can find 'em. Those wheels are still cheaper than new rear tires (which I wouldn't change just yet) and you may be able to sell yours and make up for it a bit.

There's not much you can do at the rear except know that with the springs closer together you get way-reduced roll-stiffness and at speed you're gonna effectively be driving a tricycle. You can put some back in with a sway bar and it's no more complicated than that. Remember it worked well stock, so make it think it's stock again. I might not be above sticking some weight like your battery or a sack of cement back by the tailgate for normal driving as well.

Finally after all that...you can dial it in with tire pressure. I'd bet 35 psi front, then start at 18 rear and experiment around up and down from there.

Hopefully food-for thought...

[MattDuCharme]

There's not much you can do at the rear except know that with the springs closer together you get way-reduced roll-stiffness and at speed you're gonna effectively be driving a tricycle. You can put some back in with a sway bar and it's no more complicated than that. Remember it worked well stock, so make it think it's stock again. I might not be above sticking some weight like your battery or a sack of cement back by the tailgate for normal driving as well.

Finally after all that...you can dial it in with tire pressure. I'd bet 35 psi front, then start at 18 rear and experiment around up and down from there.
Hopefully food-for thought...

Thank you for the tips. Forgot to mention, battery box and fuel cell are in the rear near the tailgate, along with battery cutoff switch.

[Loren]

Cool, that helps. Really, you could just try the experiment with stock front tires and a-arm shims and get started fixing things at zero cost.

[Orange65]

You may want to consider replacing the front springs. Made a real difference in the handling on my old truck and brought the front end up 2"! Your truck is 30+ years old with a much heavier engine in the front than it came with- that will beat the springs into submission. Otherwise, I would think wider and taller tires on the front will help.