HIlborn Mech. fuel injection on a street strip car??

[A/Fuel]

I would suggest looking into the spool kinda like Jeff mentioned also.
The shape of of the cut out will effect how much fuel flows at what position. After you set the butterfly's and get them close use either air bleeds or a valve to control the idle speed.

[Cyclone03]

from the hot rod aticle,the guy running it on the street used the "barrel" valve(I think) to lean and richen it while driving,cruise speeds steedy throttle,with a cockpit mounted cable. The only mechanical set up I've been near idled great,ran at WOT great but was pig rich in the middle,that seems to be the biggest problem.

[A/Fuel]

You wouldn't be able to do that.
Its not like a carb where it would since a load on the engine, that's probably the problem most people encounter.

[TC]

Flying Toilet??..... These guys might be able to help.......

http://www.ronsfuel.com/

[A/Fuel]

Any kind will work, the most important thing is to size the pump. Its just math.
If you're used to a carb all your thinking will be backwards. You take fuel away instead of adding it.

[anotheridiot]

from the hot rod aticle,the guy running it on the street used the "barrel" valve(I think) to lean and richen it while driving,cruise speeds steedy throttle,with a cockpit mounted cable. The only mechanical set up I've been near idled great,ran at WOT great but was pig rich in the middle,that seems to be the biggest problem.

The barrel valve is basically a turnbuckle to adjust the relationship to fuel and air at idle. It has lock nuts so you adjust it while its idling, but not while you are driving. The ramp of the barrel valve determines how quickly it goes from closed to wide open. Its more of the linkage you use that determines how your pedal will travel and how quick you go to WOT. Tuning is done by a pill, which allows fuel back to the tank, leaving what you need for the barrel valve. Idle bypasses are more for pump life to release pressure of the mechanical pump back to the tank leaning the fuel at idle. High speed bypass is set to release pressure back to the tank and lean the top end. If you are driving on the street your high speed might be set light for out of the pedal running.

I just want to know what you are doing with fuel delivery. All these guys that made it run in the 70's and 80's were so far away from current thinking of electric fuel pumps where you can use regulators and not need all the mechanical stuff. I am thinking some current thought about electric fuel pumps would make this alot easier. You regulate pressure instead of bleeding fuel back to the tank, you run the fuel pump to prime the motor to start with a three way switch where you have off, fuel pump only and fuel pump and ignition and you can prime and start easily. So deciding what you are doing to deliver the fuel would really get some ideas going. I dont know anything about alot of stuff, but there are so many here that are so smart with the msd and fuel pump stuff, mixing the old and new would be a real nice solution. If you are all in on being mechanical and nostalgic, its gonna be tougher, but doable.

[JeffMcKC]

The barrel valve is basically a turnbuckle to adjust the relationship to fuel and air at idle. It has lock nuts so you adjust it while its idling, but not while you are driving. The ramp of the barrel valve determines how quickly it goes from closed to wide open. Its more of the linkage you use that determines how your pedal will travel and how quick you go to WOT. Tuning is done by a pill, which allows fuel back to the tank, leaving what you need for the barrel valve. Idle bypasses are more for pump life to release pressure of the mechanical pump back to the tank leaning the fuel at idle. High speed bypass is set to release pressure back to the tank and lean the top end. If you are driving on the street your high speed might be set light for out of the pedal running.

I just want to know what you are doing with fuel delivery. All these guys that made it run in the 70's and 80's were so far away from current thinking of electric fuel pumps where you can use regulators and not need all the mechanical stuff. I am thinking some current thought about electric fuel pumps would make this alot easier. You regulate pressure instead of bleeding fuel back to the tank, you run the fuel pump to prime the motor to start with a three way switch where you have off, fuel pump only and fuel pump and ignition and you can prime and start easily. So deciding what you are doing to deliver the fuel would really get some ideas going. I dont know anything about alot of stuff, but there are so many here that are so smart with the msd and fuel pump stuff, mixing the old and new would be a real nice solution. If you are all in on being mechanical and nostalgic, its gonna be tougher, but doable.

A mechanical pump set up to add pressure and volume as needed (RPM) its used to help with the fuel curve and is of great use, The electric would need a vac reference change of over 10 psi to help. I would stay mech and maybe use some pressure reliefs. My first choice might be a fake Mech with a EFI tucked in, the BDS injectors allow for a line to each injector. 98% of people would never even know



Just run the lines/inj to the stacks

[TheSilverBuick]

Hmm, thats an interesting concept of using a hidden PWM electric fuel pump to adjust flow for possibly fine tuning while cruising, etc. I wonder if a knob on the dash could be made to work on trimming pump flow on the fly.

[anotheridiot]

Hmm, thats an interesting concept of using a hidden PWM electric fuel pump to adjust flow for possibly fine tuning while cruising, etc. I wonder if a knob on the dash could be made to work on trimming pump flow on the fly.

I was thinking something like a TPS on the butterflies that would tell that regulator how much fuel to deliver and some of the "computer controlled smart" guys marrying these two together somehow.

[Scott Liggett]

Hilborn has an electric efi setup using the classic looks of the stacks. The fuel rails are in between and are control by a FAST system. The old fuel block and lines become a central vacuum equalizer to each stack. It's not cheap by any means, but I've seen the before and after power differences on a sbc 434". The car originally had an 950 Holley on a Super Victor intake. It only picked up a few horsepower over the carb, but as much as 80 ft lbs of torque. The throttle response was insane. Sadly, the owner crashed both cars the engine was in. The last car went down on the news in a flame of glory.

[older guy]

I ran Hilborns on my 48 Chevy pickup on a 355 inch small block back in the late 80's on the street. Check out Jan. 88 Street Rodder or May 88 Hot Rod. It is doable if you gravity feed the pump. I used a surge tank on mine. Milage is horrible at part throttle and none of my friends wanted to be behind me going to cruises or car shows. It got more attention than a blower and the throttle responce was fantastic. I had a turbo 400 behind it. I got tired of it after a couple of years but it was a real kick. I say go for it.

Doug

[CTX-SLPR]

Probably not at all what you are wanting but Bosch made a constant flow mechanical FI used from the early 70's till the mid 90's called the K-Jetronic. It basically had a mechanical MAF that controlled a fuel distributor that passed metered fuel at constant pressure to the cylinders. I've seen 4, 5, 6, and 8 cylinder versions including turbo 4 and 6 cylinder variants for Porsche, Saab, Renault, and Volvo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4fJAfXYxWk

Theoretically you could rig up the input to the fuel distributor to adjust for vacuum making it load sensitive compared to the N-Alpha type of response on typical MFI.

[dieselgeek]

Joel, I think no matter what you do I'd start with a simple system using a wideband O2 sensor - before going with any complicated plans, see what your basic MFI system is doing (where it's rich, where it's lean) then like AFuel says, just start adding or taking away fuel based on what you observe.

Should be 100% doable with some work. I'd love to try it myself someday.

[JeffMcKC]

I ran Hilborns on my 48 Chevy pickup on a 355 inch small block back in the late 80's on the street. Check out Jan. 88 Street Rodder or May 88 Hot Rod. It is doable if you gravity feed the pump. I used a surge tank on mine. Milage is horrible at part throttle and none of my friends wanted to be behind me going to cruises or car shows. It got more attention than a blower and the throttle responce was fantastic. I had a turbo 400 behind it. I got tired of it after a couple of years but it was a real kick. I say go for it.

Doug

We worked with grinding the groove longer on the barrel valve, and using the fuel shut off to lean it down also. At a cruise you may have been off the V part of the barrel valve. You can also slow down the pump or put lean outs on it.

[Hemi Joel]

You guys have given me a lot of info to absorb. Still working on it... Thanks!