Need some input on meth injection

[tedly]

My buddy Addison has an 89 Mustang 5.0 putting out about 550hp at the tires. He's putting on a Snow meth injection kit so he can crank up the boost on the Vortec.

Neither of us has ever messed with meth injection. Any experiences, good or bad? Tips? Articles/sites to check out? Just trying to get our ducks in a row before we start monkeying with it.

Thanks for any input guys.

[hauen]

550 rwhp is near the edge of a stock 5.0 block's carrying capacity. I think I'd worry about getting your consistency down at that point rather than worrying about more hp. IIRC the 5.0 guys start breaking blocks around 700 fwhp/~10.55 quarters. Sorry if I sound like an ass, I'd just hate to see you invest a bunch of time and money in the wrong area only to DNF.

[SpiderGearsMan]

use optikleen

[dieselgeek]

I use meth injection a lot. Here are my opinions:

1. Don't use water, use 100% methanol and empty out the tank every night after use, otherwise it fills up with water from the atmosphere. I tell everyone that but they still end up with a tankful of water anyhow.

2. Look at your IAT temps via your scantool, laptop, whatever. On gasoline you want to keep it under 200* F in my opinion. If you are running 180 or so, you'll pick up a lot of power from both the meth as a fuel and as an intake cooling agent.

3. You will need to retune the Fuel delivery to take full advantage of the meth injection. Use a wideband O2 sensor and controller so you can see what I am talking about, the meth is a fuel so you need to take out some of the gasoline in the WOT mix to accomodate it, otherwise you lose a ton of power just drowning the engine in alcohol. most guys running meth injection "don't get around to it" and as such are entirely wasting their money, so this parts important.

4. Rig up some kind of idiot light when you are low on alcohol because if you do #3 above, then you make a WOT pass without the methanol being injected, you will kill the engine in one pass, guaranteed.

[ImpalaSam]

Is the straight methanol injection targeted mainly at high horsepower builds?
Would a 50/50 water/ethanol blend be acceptable for lower power levels?

[DanStokes]

Don't do it. The car will end up with no teeth and in jail.

Dan

[Aircooled]

I use meth injection a lot. Here are my opinions:

1. Don't use water, use 100% methanol and empty out the tank every night after use, otherwise it fills up with water from the atmosphere. I tell everyone that but they still end up with a tankful of water anyhow.

There is a quite a bit engineering analysis/data out there showing that 50%/50% water/Methanol is the optimum mixture for detonation suppression. The data was originated by the WWII engine manufactures and re-validated by the Reno racers.

[ImpalaSam]

I have seen conflicting opinions. The turbo Buick camp seems to lean toward the
100% methanol mindset, while other opinions I have seen say that 50/50 is best.
That has been one of the reasons I have been hesitant to try it, lack of understanding
about what would really work best for my application.

[TheSilverBuick]

Adding water does not add to making power, it reduces detonation but will also take up space that fuel or air could occupy. 100% methanol is 100% adding fuel that will burn. I would hazard a guess that when running 100% methanol that you will use more fluid in the tank by volume than adding a 50/50 mix, as when you are offsetting the gasoline BTU's the BTU's have to be made up in extra methanol.

50/50 probably works fine if you are okay leaving power on the table is what I'd guess. I'll probably be going down this road at some point in the future with my L6.

[TC]

I was under the assumption that water absorbs heat better than Methanol......... And that Water/Methanol injection is used to allow high compression engines to run on pump gas.......

Also when a 3 quart bottle of water/methanol will last a tank full of gas, how much of a performance "boost" are you really getting from the Methanol??.........

[TheSilverBuick]

Sure it absorbs heat better than methanol, then contributes nothing to the combustion process except absorbing that energy. Methanol gives that energy back when it burns.

[TC]

Sure it absorbs heat better than methanol, then contributes nothing to the combustion process except absorbing that energy. Methanol gives that energy back when it burns.

I thought water basically gives it an indefinite octane rating, which would allow more timing, which if the motor could use the extra timing would make more power, so maybe it contributes some in it's own way.............

[TheSilverBuick]

Definitely not infinite octane, and methanol both allows more timing AND burns to contribute power. Plus, extra timing does not guarentee extra power. If you think water burns, have I got an ocean front property down the street from your home to sell you.

[SpiderGearsMan]

oxygen carrying chemical

[tedly]

Don't do it. The car will end up with no teeth and in jail.

Dan

I knew someone was going to go there.

I kinda figured he was getting near the edge of what the stock block could handle. This isn't in a pure race car that is only hammered on at the track, though. He drives the hell out of the thing. Even if the stock block does go boom, that's just an excuse for us to build a Windsor for it. Been trying to convince him to do it anyway.

So if I'm following this correctly, you can go with either 50/50 water and methanol or straight methanol. Water helps cool the intake charge but adds nothing to the combustion process. Methanol does. However it's done the fuel delivery map should tweaked to keep the cylinders from basically being washed out by too much fuel on the top end and to optimize the available power. If the map is tweaked, there needs to be some kind of warning system to let him know before the meth tank runs out to keep from leaning out and going boom.

OK, so I'm a little more informed now but still gotta dig into this more.

Thanks guys! And feel free to keep adding stuff, input is always welcome.