What type of Nitrous Controller?

[mopower58]

I am planning on a ZEX perimeter plate system for my Coronet. I need a progressive controller as I don't have a big tire 275/60 MT ET Radial with caltrac setup. Any ideas on what would work well? I wanted to run a 200 - 300 shot with the 4500 plate. 500 INCH motor with 295 Indy lil ez heads 11.5 compression and 3 inch full exhaust. Any recomendations would be appreciated as I am Nitrous ignorant!!!

[Supergas565]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

I am planning on a ZEX perimeter plate system for my Coronet. I need a progressive controller as I don't have a big tire 275/60 MT ET Radial with caltrac setup. Any ideas on what would work well? I wanted to run a 200 - 300 shot with the 4500 plate. 500 INCH motor with 295 Indy lil ez heads 11.5 compression and 3 inch full exhaust. Any recomendations would be appreciated as I am Nitrous ignorant!!!

NOS....has a great controller (mini-controller) ck it out....I'm not a favorite of the ZEX peimeter plate...the cross bars seem to work better....NOS again has a good one. Just my opinion.

Rickster

[ProRauder]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

I've been doing my homework on just this sort of thing.  I went with the NOS's Mini 2 Stage Progressive Nitrous controller, #15974.  It's got 2 fully independent controllers in a small weatherproof case to mount under the hood.  It comes with a small controller that uses a mini USB port connector to the box so that can be mounted inside the car.  I used a piece of Velcro (love that stuff!)  to mount it to the right of the dash panel.  

I too went with the ZEX Perimeter Plate system for my motor.  I currently have them both running off one set of solenoids but I might switch to using two different sets and know the controller will handle it.  Your idea of using progressive is spot-on.  When running that much squeeze, you want to roll into it gently so as to not shock the motor too much.  NOS generates a TON of cylinder pressure.  Another nice thing about this controller is that it has two digital outputs to control timing delay boxes as well.

Let's see if I can get the pictures  ..

Ok, it's the tiny little box with the orange sticker just above the square black box with the funny yellow writing on it (assembly line hieroglyphics).  It's really small, maybe 3"x1"x1".



and the perimeter plate system..



BTW, I'll be taking this into Finish Line Performace in Naperville, IL just after the first of the year to have a BigStuff3 installed and dyno'd.  I'll let you know just how much I was able to dump into my junk as soon as it completed.

John

[KeithTurk]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

I'm not a fan of Nitrous controllers or electric safety systems of any kind. Every time I've installed one of these deals it's broken or caused me some kind of issue...

Controllers in our case don't have enough pre-set On time for our gig... and when the last one reset it took 20 seconds to get back on... Most likely a great thing for Drag racing... but not cool when you want to turn the stuff on for a WHILE... or if you flinched on the button while it was on... it was over for that round...

K

[mopower58]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

Thanks for all the input. I won't use it except at the drag strip, the main reason I am even considering it is for the Pump Gas Drags, IF I even get chosen. The car has some 10.70's in it without nitrous but to compete with lighter, bigger cubic inch cars, I need a little extra.

[64duece]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

Holley offers the Launcher which has some really nice features. Although it's not a simple as a "knob" style unit, the features of datalogging and Can Bus compatibility with WBO2 etc really set this unit apart.

It can be adjusted via laptop or handheld progammer. You can find detailed info and instructions on Holley's website.

[QuarterHorse]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

I was leaning towards the Eddy controller when the time comes for me.

[KeithTurk]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

My problem with controllers is that they are a pain in the ass... and I have to figure out or re-learn how to use them every time... ( we might use it once a year for example )...

Stuff like WOT switches and Fuel Pressure switches... man that junk has cost me motors... seriously... I've worn out junk only to figure out later that I was right on the edge.. and it was going in and out based on the Fuel pressure getting Right at the cut off... couldn't prove it on the Chassis dyno because the test duration wasn't long enough...

But the concept of phasing in Nitrous is just to good to ignore... and in practice I know the guys who have this right run faster...

Kind of like Traction control... get it right the car is going faster... do it wrong and the car runs a TON slower

K

[dieselgeek]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

I'm going to have to side with Keith, I've wired a few different progressive controllers, and home-built another, and what I found was that it's difficult to get consistent behavior out of the solenoids, most of which weren't originally designed for pulsewidth modulated use.

Keith and David had an interesting problem with one on the LSR car; won't stay on long enough!! PWM control makes a lot of heat in a small electronics package, likely the issue is overtemp or thermal protection in the unit itself...

however, back to the problems we had, especially with a wet shot, getting the enrichments to stay consistent during the run was difficult.


*make sure* you are running some kind of wideband AFR datalogging so you can keep the fuel/air mix in check!!!

IMO, a good way to bring in power slowly is one of MSD's ignition solutions. Lots of the faster SSO and outlaw 10.5 cars run it with success and consistency, now on an LSR car the delayed timing thing presents other problems (EGTs) but for drag racing with a blower or nitrous, I think ignition control is easier to use.

-scott

[ProRauder]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

I'm going to have to side with Keith, I've wired a few different progressive controllers, and home-built another, and what I found was that it's difficult to get consistent behavior out of the solenoids, most of which weren't originally designed for pulsewidth modulated use.

however, back to the problems we had, especially with a wet shot, getting the enrichments to stay consistent during the run was difficult.

*make sure* you are running some kind of wideband AFR datalogging so you can keep the fuel/air mix in check!!!

All good points Scott. I probably would not have run the perimeter plate system had I not decided to go with the BigStuff3 controller. It has a pair of WideBand O2s that constantly monitor AFR and can adjust +/- 25% on the fuel even at WOT. That should keep the motor happy and together with a large shot. (that and a competent tuner knowing how to keep it together!)

John

[Eric68]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

If you want something cheap that works (at least for me) try a simple digital timer. Nothing fancy just set the dip switches for the delay you want and wire the output to a relay, from the relay to the solenoids. It won't be a progressive hit, but if you can delay the hit until the car is hooked up then it may help.

[QuarterHorse]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

What you have to remember with the controllers is they aren't "slowly opening" the solenoid. They're fluttering the piston open and shut to control the amount it's letting past. That being said on anything other than a race application, it seems like a waste putting your solenoids under that kind of abuse. I've seen quite a few fail. The guys running controllers should be inspecting the 'noides regularly.

[Dans 83]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

Progressive systems are scary!!! Chattering (opening and closing) the solenoids repeatedly wears them prematurely and quite often they will lock up. If you lock open the nos side you burn holes in your pistons, valves, heads,etc... If you lock open the fuel side you wash down the cylinders with fuel and end up scoring the bores and destroying the rings. Look into a two stage setup with a delay!

[BillBallinger Sr]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

I like a button that hits the whole shebang at once myself. Simplicity and always wet. Come out of the hole without it, bang 2nd and at about 5000 hit it wind to 7000, shift it through on it, get out of the juice at the ET light and let the mph be what it is going to be. If you keep the revs over 5000 you won't hurt any thing. If you are hitting it under 5000 (unless you are running a diesel) you are playing with a rattlesnake.

Whats cool about the 2nd gear button grab is things things have settled down and a good clean 60 ft is behind you, traction is stable, and you can run it out the back door with the car straight.

JMO, I'm old school but I've run some fancy guys electrics and beat them, especially in brackets, much more consistent. Plus you can get out of it anytime you want, push in the clutch and not hit the wall.

[mopower58]

Re: What type of Nitrous Controller?

Thanks for all the experience and input. Mr. Ballinger you have a valid point. I am just trying to get in the 9's with a big tank, small tire and full exhaust. Maybe I will install the kit, play around with a 150 to 200 shot in 2nd and 3rd and see how it works out.