Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my back

[Brad54]

The local country junk yard here in town is a real honey hole. With scrap prices up so high, everyone is pulling out pieces of crap and scrapping them. Luckily, the local yard does a pretty decent job of putting all the old stuff in the yard to be picked over before crushing it. I've gotten two '57 Ford 9-inch rear ends out of there, one that isn't all caked with grease and the drums still have the factory star washers on the studs. (These are almost direct bolt-ins for Tri-5 Chevys, among others), and lots of stuff for my '62 Suburban as there's been a steady stream of '60-'66 Chevy trucks (mint doors and inner fenders, gauge clusters, etc).

So after dropping Boy Wonder off at school today, I swing through on my way home. I'm always on the look out for Mopar and Chevy truck A-833 OD transmissions. So to make a short story long, I walked past a full-size Chevy truck with 6.2L Diesel badges on the front fender and noticed BBC valve covers! They're orange smooth covers, not the later style. Someone has taken the spreadbore off it and disconnected the A/C compressor. Cast iron intake, and an HEI is laying on the battery tray with the cap off. Cast iron exhaust manifolds, without any kind of ports or other hook ups, and I didn't notice an abundance of smog equipment. It has every appearance of being someone's swap, or someone put the Diesel badges on it to screw with people. The rest of the truck looks stock, so I doubt it's all cam'd up and someone added the badges just to be funny.

I quickly closed the hood. I should go back and throw a seat or bed mat or something over the engine to make people REALLY want to look at it.

So the question is this: not being BBC savvy, is there an easy way to tell, externally, what size engine this is? How about the year it was made? I could probably take the intake off rather easily and check what ports are on it, but I'm sure they're peanut ports.

Time is really tight this week with very pressing editorial deadlines, but I don't know if I should go back and try to pull it one morning. I didn't check the trans, but I can't see it being anything other than a TH400.

Didn't get a price on the trans, but the engine is $110, with no warranty. Even if it's scrap, I'd only be out my time and a few bucks if I returned it for scrap value. Probably break even selling the pan, valve covers and brackets.

So, any ideas? My biggest concern is that I go out there and find out it's a 366 Tonowanda truck engine or something. Do people even want 396 blocks?

-Brad

[Loren]

Re: Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my back

With so little smog stuff, it doesn't sound like a stock motor for the era. Probably it at least has oval port heads, not peanut ports. You can "gauge" the distance between the intake manifold bolts and port casting to tell the difference without removing the manifold. Also, if the manifold is "raised" at all, not the flat low-rise type, then it probably is oval. Peanut ports are garbage for anything in my experience including in a torque motor, stay away.

Pickup truck 454s w/ peanut ports are common, will have all the emissions stuff and are worth little, something with oval ports is better and useful in toys etc. 366's with the tall deck will have extra space on the front of the block between the water pump inlet and the deck (for I.D. purposes) and are worth nothing. An earlier motor or a 396 may have value in a musclecar restoration. You really need casting numbers to I.D., plus someone around here with the book which I don't have.

For awhile thrashed low-value big blocks were practically landing in my lap...people's abandoned project hopes as gas prices were climbing. I scrapped a few, kept a few. I don't think I would bother pulling one from a vehicle unless it looked like something special or I needed the brackets/accesories which all seem to "disappear" on loose motors.

BTW could you use a GM A833 O.D. married to a 208 transfer case? Oddball, I know, and a heavy part to ship.

[squirrel]

Re: Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my back

Size of the damper will most likely tell you if it's a 396 or 454. I just look at them to see the difference, but they're either 7 x 1-3/8" for the 396 or 8 x 1-5/8" for the 454, and the 454 has a weight hiding on the backside (it's not a cut out area on the outside like the 400).

You could look at the numbers stamped on the deck below the alternator, too. The engine code will be something like T0318IV if it's a 396, and T0318CLB if it's a 402 or 454. The suffix was two letters in the 60s, 3 letters starting in 70, and usually C for cars or T for truck was the first of the 3 letters. Most early 70s engines were 402s it seems.

Also look at www.mortec.com for casting numbers, but it's usually kind of hard to see the back of the block. Later engines (starting in the 80s?) had 7.4 cast on the side of the block.

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my b

Here in Cali, a pick up originally powered by a diesel is forever exempt from smog testing so a lot of guys go wild with engines in them. Not uncommon at all out here.


As an answer to KSO's question. Yes you could put the NP440 in front of a transfer case. It's the same length and uses the same yoke as most stick trannies and the TH350's. It is shorter than the TH350's that came in the trucks during the seventies by about 3 inches. They had the 9 inch tail shaft while most cars got the 6 inch with the exception of 71 and later Impala's.

[Brad54]

Re: Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my b

I tried for about all I was worth this morning, and couldn't get the numbers off the back by the bellhousing. I even tried with a digital camera, and simply couldn't get the angle.
I was wrong about the ports in the exhaust manifolds. It does have them, though they're blocked off. It is definitely painted orange (a friend said most truck big blocks were blue).
The numbers on the pad are T0616CTB.
So if I'm reading that correctly from my engine numbers book, it comes back as being built at the Tonowanda engine plant on June 16, and the CTB comes back as a '72 402, 240hp.

What heads would be on it?

So now the question becomes this: is a '72 402 worth the effort and $110 to pull from the truck and sit under the bench in my garage?
It's also got a Turbo 400 behind it. The trans will be under $200.

thoughts?

-Brad

[squirrel]

Re: Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my back

Good question. Kinda depends on what you want to spend your time doing...collecting not very desirable big blocks? or do you know someone who'd buy it? The CTB was used in 1972 full size cars, chevelles,and camaros, but it's not a performance engine. Probably not a lot of "collector" value.

Also, you have no idea what condition it's in, my guess is that it's worn out like all of them are....

All the engines were orange until the mid/late 70s when they started painting them blue. Since they quit putting big blocks in cars by then, we naturally assume that a blue big block is from a truck, and an orange one is from a car.

[Loren]

Re: Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my b

'72 402, huh? Hmmm... I think that's a little something that -I- would take the trouble to pull, but most people would not. The heads on that will be oval port and good for 8:1 w/ flat-top pistons, crank will be cast. I have had roughly the same motor in a '70 El Camino SS-396 for 20 years (put together in '87), only w/ a Camaro 396 block and forged crank. It was for just general driving and towing, I wanted a big-block but to keep the cu. in. down and also to be able to go to Mexico etc. I was always super-happy with it...it didn't do anything great but did everything well. Milage w/ 2.73 gears and a Richmond manual was around 14-15 @ 75 mph. Not good, but affordable. It would cruise at 90 all day without breaking a sweat when you could get away with it. Finally the carb started dumping fuel into the oil and at around 150,000 miles it has a loose bearing.

Pardon the story but that is what a stock 402 is good for. With higher gas prices...? Originally I was concerned with fuel when I went with the "small" big-block, I wanted to have a BB in the car but not "pay" too much for it.

As an answer to KSO's question. Yes you could put the NP440 in front of a transfer case.

Thanks for the info...that's something I'm interested in and I like those transmissions. However I probably wasn't being clear, I -have- the trans & case, sitting around unused. Iron trans case connected to the alum transfer case with an iron "adaptor" replacing the tailshaft housing. Wide ratio spread & relatively light duty, not a rock crawler but ok for desert. I bought it and rebuilt it for a Blazer but didn't use it, I have never actively tried to sell it but there it sits. 'Guess I'll bring up the subject properly sometime if I ever make up my mind.

[Brad54]

Re: Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my b

Thanks for the input. I'm still on the fence about it. Not sure what to do. I'll sleep on it.

I can't use any of the transfer case stuff, but I'd really like to get my hands on an iron main case for the 833. Does yours have the Chevy or Mopar bellhousing mount?

If you decide to part it out (sell the transfer case to someone else), let me know about the rest of it.

Also, you said you took off the original tail shaft housing...do you still have it? I have two of those transmissions (one Mopar mount, one Chevy mount), but some idiot destroyed the tail shaft housing by trying to remove it without pulling out the snap ring. They actually managed to get it off--of course, that left the ring land in pieces in the bottom of the trans... So I've got one that works, and a spare. But I'd really like to replace the aluminum case in my daily driver with an iron case.

-Brad

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my back

BBC = BIG BUCKS -110 BUCKS IS A DEAL !!!

[Loren]

Re: Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my b

Thanks for the input. I'm still on the fence about it. Not sure what to do. I'll sleep on it.

I can't use any of the transfer case stuff, but I'd really like to get my hands on an iron main case for the 833. Does yours have the Chevy or Mopar bellhousing mount?

If you decide to part it out (sell the transfer case to someone else), let me know about the rest of it.

Also, you said you took off the original tail shaft housing...do you still have it? I have two of those transmissions (one Mopar mount, one Chevy mount), but some idiot destroyed the tail shaft housing by trying to remove it without pulling out the snap ring. They actually managed to get it off--of course, that left the ring land in pieces in the bottom of the trans... So I've got one that works, and a spare. But I'd really like to replace the aluminum case in my daily driver with an iron case.

-Brad

I don't have a tailshaft housing, it's a factory 4x4 setup w/ factory "adaptor" bolted there. Iron case, GM Pattern w/ bellhousing. I will watch for them in the local yard, but they're unusual...I found a Dodge one a while back but it's gone now. Maybe I'll ask next time I go.

SGM come by and pick a cast-crank 454 out from my pile of parts...you need one! It's calling you...

[65 L79]

Re: Junkyard BBC find: Help with IDing, before I spent a hot Georgia day on my back

Around here you could re-sell that 402 BBC in an instant for $500 or more if it isnt blown up or rusted fast .
Even if you are not a CHEVY guy - - that is a deal !