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racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

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  • Dynoroom
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    I saw your post before the edit and Iím glad you changed it. You decided to pass the olive branch, I will return in kind.

    The original post was about the parts he bought used. I stated that they would work fine in the application he wanted to use them in at the output he asked for. I added he didn't need a blow off valve in that application and it does not. The main reason itís not a problem with a Rajay turbo is because it has a 3/8Ē shaft vs. the old Garrett T-04 that only had a ľĒ shaft. You could break that shaft just tightening the compressor wheel nut. Garrett built some special 5/16Ē shaft turbos for Smokey Yunick to use at Indy back in the Ď70ís as he was failing them when he closed the throttle at high boost. No bovís back then. Today all the aftermarket turbo manufactures build their turbos with big shafts from the beginning.
    .
    Turbocharger compressor maps are generated on a hot test stand run by natural gas. I use to operate a hot test stand to generate these maps. You run the turbo through a series of speed ranges and measure compressor discharge temps & flow via an SAE standard. To generate this information you actually run the compressor into surge, thatís how the surge line gets on the compressor map, they donít just guess. Anyway you do this at each speed range and record the data and thatís how a map is established. Yes, you shouldnít run a compressor in the surge range for extended periods of time but during rapid closed throttle decell it has been shown not to be a problem unless you are to far to the left of the compressor map for your application. Most high output applications want to run through the high efficiency islands or to the right of the map using more airflow. The sonic whistle you hear when you close the throttle is momentary surge but is not normally problematic if the compressor is sized right for the engine. As I stated before the thurst bearing is there for that reason.

    My radiator in a box. The inlet & outlets were moved on the radiator to the side and I use a hose on the inside to connect them to the tubes you see here on the side of the box.





    And a few other turbo systems that I've run that didn't use BOV's

    This is around 1990


    Record of 236 mph with 258 cu. in. the record still stands today.


    This is about the same time period


    Record of 282 mph with 488 cu. in. this one also still stands.


    Oh ya, these cars did not use EFI

    This one on the other hand did. Single turbo, 258 cu. in. 315 mph in a lakester.


    We did use 2 wastegates though...




    Iím sorry you had a turbo failure. Without knowing more about your application we donít know if your failure was due to overspeed due to boost leakage, compressor surge do to incorrect turbo sizing for the application or if some other issue caused the failure. I'mglad it's work for you now.
    Enjoy the holidays!

    Oh..... I'm sorry you hang with that Mustang crowd.............KIDDING!! ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • VWMMP
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    Yup its Joel - I get to put the truck in the Garage this weekend. I will officially be finished with the Basement tomorrow (taking the day off). My lovely wife invited her boss and a few co-workers over for New Years and the trim could not wait. I can finally finish up the install next week with work being closed between Christmas and New Years.

    Anyway I think I get it - 2 tanks - Radiator in one tank - cap on the other. I understand the principle, just need to wrap my thoughts around physical items.

    Planning something for 2009 since if I start thinking about the current project I might try to grab a few shop lights and go out to start working on it. Upsetting my neighbors again.

    Leave a comment:


  • dieselgeek
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    pressure relief cap on the secondary reservoir to vent the steam Joel? the Spectre streamliner (originally the Plastic Express #6969 "Classy Chassis" car) came with this setup. I am with Dave Maty, I had to think about that on a few long drives home. Then all of a sudden it clicked what a killer idea that is. Perfect for something that races at bonneville, if set up properly.

    Leave a comment:


  • VWMMP
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    Originally posted by KeithTurk

    In one of my cars I run a radiator submerged in a water tank... it really is an old theory used in WW2 Aircraft... it's called a total loss system because the water around the radiator boils off and heat extracted from the radiator as a result of evaporation maintains the temp at no more then 212 degree's at sea level... ( at Bville's 4000' water boils at 190 ) You just have to keep adding water over time
    Kieth - How do you vent the steam out? Do you vent to another container to keep the hot water from flying around in case of a tumble?

    Leave a comment:


  • SpeedZealot
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    can't everyone just hug.....
    ok not so much....

    The first time I saw the radiator in the box, I thought what the fuq. Even after keith explained it, i was like WTF. Then after the 12hr drive home from Enterprise Al it finally clicked and made perfect sense. Its a really cool idea that no one gets, I'm just trying to figure out how to make it fit in the camaro.

    Leave a comment:


  • flyinhillbilly
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    Originally posted by Dynoroom
    We built our new lsr car with a radiator in a box. It does work, you will need to find the optimum tank fill etc but it will keep the car cool when hot & if you lower the tank level it will allow the car to heat up faster when cold. I run a thermostat and a 22lb cap.

    Originally posted by flyinhillbilly
    you are the second know-it-all i have happened across so far.
    do me a favor, in the future just don't reply to my posts ok?
    This probally doesn't need to be said but you might be a bit thin skinned for a website forum.
    Take it easy, just because you might have had different results doesn't make the other party wrong. They might even be able to prove it with test data....

    #2
    you are right, that didn't need to be said. i basicly live at turbomustangs.com, and have no trouble over there. we have disagreements, argue and bicker, and get along fine. and i might be able to prove that i'm not wrong with a thrashed turbo. i did notice that you are running a box, i'll bet that the volume helps dampen the pressure spike when the throttle blades are closed. i do know that i changed the turbo, let everything else alone except added a bov and it's been fine for over a year now. like you said, different results, which is easy considering how different our setups are. how much boost are you running on the pontiac with the box?

    Leave a comment:


  • Dynoroom
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    OK, I'll add you & Dave to the list of name's on the deck lid.... ;)

    I gotta say I thought it was a great idea as opposed to the water tanks we've run in the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • KeithTurk
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    Mike do I get credit for bringing that to the Salt for the first time? or at least proving it will work?

    LOL ya know Seriously Dahlgren and I beat that up quite a bit before I actually made the thing...

    K

    Leave a comment:


  • Dynoroom
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    We built our new lsr car with a radiator in a box. It does work, you will need to find the optimum tank fill etc but it will keep the car cool when hot & if you lower the tank level it will allow the car to heat up faster when cold. I run a thermostat and a 22lb cap.

    Originally posted by flyinhillbilly
    you are the second know-it-all i have happened across so far.
    do me a favor, in the future just don't reply to my posts ok?
    This probally doesn't need to be said but you might be a bit thin skinned for a website forum.
    Take it easy, just because you might have had different results doesn't make the other party wrong. They might even be able to prove it with test data....

    #2

    Leave a comment:


  • JeffMcKC
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    My car still has that pump but I did learn not to use it with under drive pulleys. Yeah I know I am adding wieght for the Pump Gas Drags LMAO I cant bolt enough in to make weight

    Cool!

    Leave a comment:


  • flyinhillbilly
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    Originally posted by JeffMcKC
    You will understand with time not to take me that way, I am very rough around the edges. LOL
    the problem with the internet is that you ( i can't anyway ) sense sarcasm orwhen someone is ribbing you. btw, i'm pretty rough around the edges too, i can take almost anything in good humor, i misunderstood what you were typing. i promise i won't take you seriously again. ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • ksj1
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    Jeff,Would a NASCAR style water pump help him??? ;D ;D How is that tummy doing with the holidays and all. ;D Gonna have to put the car on a diet or move the seat back further ;D ? OK I'll quit.Happy Holidays. ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • JeffMcKC
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    You will understand with time not to take me that way, I am very rough around the edges. LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • flyinhillbilly
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    Originally posted by JeffMcKC
    But if a guy ask's for ideas and comments he may want to put his helmet on to protect him from the bad ones, if he ( not just meaning this guy) is that against hearing what he has ask for. Positive and negitive ideas are both constuctive if used right.

    opinions and comments are great, that's what i was looking for. you stated that you thought it was a stupid idea the first time, i took that as a fair and reasonable comment, and carried on, even twice was liviable, but where i developed the problem was when you just kept coming back over and over saying that it was a stupid idea and not offering any alternatives to maybe help make it work, i got that the first time and just got tired of hearing it. i'm sorry that i came at you like that, i just thought you were being a jerk to stroke your ego like so many others on the web do.

    Leave a comment:


  • JeffMcKC
    replied
    Re: racing with a tank instead of a radiator, cooling issues?

    Racing heck life know matter what kind of idea you have if you ask someone elses opinion has positive and negitive (I look at as input to make me think about what I am doing), this by no means should be seen as telling him not to do it, in fact most of us would just to prove them wrong.

    But if a guy ask's for ideas and comments he may want to put his helmet on to protect him from the bad ones, if he ( not just meaning this guy) is that against hearing what he has ask for. Positive and negitive ideas are both constuctive if used right.

    Every one knows the Garlits story on rear engine dragsters, they wont work either. Turbos can't Drag Race, we have all heard them.

    I am not saying it wont work, I am saying I don't think it will, I think there may be better ways, like if it is not a weight thing, then why not just add the weight to the rear?  Then if it goes faster your on to something, but if not, well you get the idea. I have been wrong before and will again as I to try a lot of off the wall stuff and just because it does not work this time it does not mean it wont work the next time.

    Leave a comment:

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