Budget paint/body help wanted

[Fairlaneiac]

Hi all, I've seen so many low buck paint/body articles in all the mags, from painting a car with a roller to not so low buck jobs. Is this really something that a first timer should attempt in their garage and hope to get respectable results? Ive got the time, money and determination to do it, should I just get out there and start stripping the paint and not look back? I'm not looking for a show car job, its a drag car, I just want it to be decent. And what method would be the best for stripping paint? The car has a very old custom lacquer paint job that's starting to chip off. I'm thinking I could remove most of it with razor blades. Any help would be appreciated. Love the site by the way. I cant wait to see what it evolves into.

[squirrel]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

If the very old custom lacquer job is still mostly intact, post pics and we'll advise you on the wisdom of stripping it off.....might be better to leave it, but it's hard to tell without seeing what you have.

[DanStokes]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

Ditto what Jim said. If you do decide to strip it, I recommend sand paper - like 80 grit or so. Remember any scratches you put in you'll have to get out, and it would be tough not to gouge it with a razor blade. Chemical strippers can run into cracks and you'll never get the paint to lay down. I've stripped lots of 'em with sand paper and it isn't as bad as you might think.

As far as doing it yourself - absolutely. The better equipment you have, the quicker and easier it will go, but you CAN do all the sanding by hand if need be (I don't recommend that!). I did my first one at 15. I looked like crap. I then got some info (I was always the charge into it and see what happens type) and they started coming out better and better. Don't get in a hurry and have fun with it.

Dan

[Freiburger]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

Ive got the time, money and determination to do it

That's 99% of what you need. Go for it.

[Saltfever]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

(snip . . .) Ive got the time, money and determination to do it, should I just get out there and start stripping the paint and not look back? I'm not looking for a show car job, its a drag car, I just want it to be decent. And what method would be the best for stripping paint?

Wow, what a loaded question! Normally I would agree with Dan and Squirrel but in your case I’m going to play the contrarian. Not because of what they said but because of what you said. (See quote above). It hurts to agree with David but even though he partially answer your question, follow his advice. ;D

You didn't say make or model, fiberglass or steel, which would have shortened this response. I would say STRIP IT! That is the only way to do the job right, but more importantly to get it down to bare metal. And it takes no skill at all. The skill part of this deal comes only at the end on the final color coat. Prior to that you can (and will) be sanding and removing all of your mistakes. And you already implied you have the will to learn. What a perfect platform to learn. Try it and then sand out any mistakes. The more you do the better you learn and the cost is very little (for primer or sealer) and the time you said you had.

The reason you want to go to bare metal is so you can get it passivated (sometimes called metal-prep, or phosphate coating). You have no idea of what went before and starting on a fresh surface cures all potential trouble, end of story! If you can remove the fenders, doors, and deck lid then stripping will not get in the seams. There is mild hysteria about residual chemical causing future paint problems. No doubt true for the naïve or sloppy work. Stripping requires a complete and through wash after completion. Diligent work, and water, neutralizes any chemical in the seams. Further, if parts have been removed you don’t have seams to worry about. With doors and fenders off it is even easier to do a good job with stripper. Lastly, the passivation (and it must be done) will further neutralize stripper. Don’t let it scare you. Stripper will work much better if it is warm. Warm it in a can of warm water.

If there is a vocational school near you, with a body & paint class, enroll for a quarter or semester. You will learn an incredible amount. You could also start slow by taking in a door or fender and working on that to build your skills. Stay with the class to the end and then transfer that knowledge to the rest of the car. It is a great place to learn and you are not messing up you garage. They usually have a professional paint booth and other tools you will get good experience with. Also, a teacher that you can pester with questions. By the time you are finished with priming and sanding and repriming everything; you should be able to spray a fairly decent pattern. After all, the color (or base/clear) coat is done in about 3-4 hours on the last day! There will be months, and many hours before you get to the color coat. By that time you will be very comfortable with the gun.

On a one part paint job the color is laid done and you are finished. The two part job requires base coat (which is color) and about 20 minutes later you spray a number of clear coats. Some people may dissuade you from a two part job because it takes a professional. Bull! It is actually easier than a single color. In fact the factories invented it because it is easier to fix mistakes. The base coat dries quickly. If you get a run you can usually sand it, or repair it quickly. Besides that, the clear actually covers up a lot of mistakes in the base because it’s glossy. The hard part about the clear is because it is clear! You can’t see the pattern you are laying down as well as a less translucent color. It sprays easier (because it is thinner) but it is just a visual thing that is sometimes difficult. Good lighting really helps. But you said it is a race car and you didn’t care that much. A base/clear job will cost more in materials though. If you shoot a single color use an industrial color. IOW, go to the paint store and don’t select a color out of an OEM color book. What you want are colors out of the “fleet” book. They will be cheaper but they will also have a better gloss and cover better (due to more pigment). Painters of trucks and fleets have to have a good paint that is inexpensive, will cover very well, look good, be rugged, and easy to spray. Fleet requests are notoriously cheap but they want a million dollar looking paint job! The paint has to be very forgiving because a painter can’t afford a lot of time on a fleet job. Color selection is about as good as the OEMs. You have the right attitude to succeed . . . so do it! All the best and good luck.

[Fairlaneiac]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

Thanks for the replies guys. I dont have any recent pics of it and the ones I do have arent very close up. But the paint is badly crazed and chipped in certain spots. It definitely needs to be removed. I'm going to start stripping it myself and then i'll be forced to finally see it through. I think a combo of chemical stripper and a D/A should get it all off. Then I'll buy every paint/body book ever published and go to town.

[squirrel]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

What I was getting at, is that if the paint job is still mostly intact, even with some crazing/chipping, it could be much more interesting (and valuable) than a nice new amateur paint job.

My friend's 32 ford has an old lacquer job that is cracking and chipping...and the Roth striping on it is fading..and he would be a damn fool to strip it off and repaint the car.

[DanStokes]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

I don't think Saltfever and I disagree at all, other than the method of stripping. He touched on one important step (I was trying to be very brief). The further apart you take the car, the better the result - BTW, I have never had much trouble with color matching from panel to panel, as long as you spray them all in the same direction. Taking the doors, hood, decklid, and fenders off gets all the openings clean and pained so there is no visual clues between the new paint and whatever was there before. Even so, as a rookie, I'd stick with sand paper to strip it. Do the heavy part of sanding of the removable stuff before you remove it you don't have to chase the parts around the shop. Try it and see how it goes for you. After all, you're the one doing it.

Later
Dan

[TC]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

If you strip the car to the metal, your going to need to spray the whole car with a self etching sealer primer before you do any body work. Now I look at is if the paint is cracking all over the place then strip it off, but if you only have a few spots that are cracking then I would DA those areas and leave the paint on the rest of the car. As for chips, don't worry about them they are nothing a little filler won't fix. Also I was told by a friend of mine that owns a bodyshop that sometimes it's better to leave the paint on the car and just sand it down until you start seeing the high spots in the metal. So basically the paint that is left ends up filling the low spots and you end up with a smooth and flat surface. Here's a pic of one of my doors from my '71 Camaro after I sanded it down.

And here's a pic after I threw some primer on it.

[squirrel]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

You could tape off the seams and use aircraft stripper over most of the car, if needed.

But I'd still like to see what it is we're stripping off first!

[milner351]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

I'm reading this thread with interest as well.

my '69 mach is supposed to be champagne gold, it's red now, and not the best job, and full of race stickers....

I'm tempted to heat gun the stickers off, and see if I can get the red to buff out to decent condition - then put the 428 in it and drive it a bit -- then start into the project again to strip it all down and do the right color, interior etc.....


sounds like taking it to bare metal is the only option --- better invest in 3m stock, it's going to take a ton of sand paper to get to metal on this thing!

[Fordplay0621]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

Is there metal under all of that Bondo?
Sanding is the way to go, remove all the trim, lights, mirrors and emblems you can. As long as the paint is not like the 3rd or 4th paint job it should'nt be to thick. Being thick is whats going to make it crack. Hot to Cold, Hot to Cold, and all the flexing of a Drag car tends to help the cracks show up to. Wear gloves of some sort when you are doing large areas so you dont wear your finger tips off, while admiring the work. Step your Sandpaper down after the initial sanding and work towards a finer grade of paper. Those big scratches are what take the most time. I shy away from the 80 Grit unless the paint is really thick. Get a good straight edge to make sure the body panels are sitting at the same level so you dont sand the edges to thin. This will help out later when you Color Sand, Buff the car after painting. You wont see the shadows dip on the edges and it looks better (Straight Reflections) Some people use a Air file type sander when doing Body Panels as they sand from one panel to the next.

Buy Plastic Sheeting and make a booth.
Have some good ventilation.
Keep the floor swept and wet if possible for Dust.
Get a step stool and do the roof first.
Keep the gun moving.
Make sure the kids have everything they need from the Shop first.
Get extra thinner, because you will spill the other can.

Only way to learn is to do! Good Luck.

[squirrel]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

The best way to strip the car depends on what is on the car, as well as what you have available to do the stripping, and how much time/money you have.

If you don't have a good compressor, then using a sander will be a real long job...

if you don't have a sandblaster, then that's out.

If the car has only one or two layers of paint, and it's still in pretty good shape, then sanding is usually the best way to go.

I sometimes use all 3 methods on the same car.

[milner351]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

any suggestions on getting stickers off paint?

[DanStokes]

Re: Budget paint/body help wanted

They can be a royal pain. Generally, if they're vinyl (most are) you can heat 'em with the heat gun and peel that way. I've had them pull the paint with them, but that's not common. There is also a 3M product that's made to remove fake wood grain on station wagons and sometimes that works pretty well. It's in a spray can and I just follow the directions. Just don't get in a hurry.

Hope this helps
Dan