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Logging the F150 with Torque Pro for Android to track down a timing anamoly.

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  • Logging the F150 with Torque Pro for Android to track down a timing anamoly.

    Lately I have been playing with Torque Pro to observe and log data from the truck as I drive around town. This is a fantastic app that works very well.

    Since the weather has warmed up, the truck has started doing a strange thing with timing. I believe it starts after the truck has entered closed loop operation. It is retarding the timing like crazy when you start to accelerate. Also when sitting in gear at a light, the timing is all over the place, but the idle remains smooth. Turn the truck off, turn it back on and it is normal again. I do not think it is related to my phaser lockouts because others have reported the same sort of bog when the weather is warm/hot.

    To enter closed loop, certain conditions have to be met:
    When the engine is first started, and rpm is above 400 rpm, the system goes into 'Open Loop' operation. In 'Open Loop', the ECM will ignore the signal from the Oxygen (O2) sensor and calculate the air/fuel ratio based on inputs from the coolant and MAF sensors, but mostly from a pre-programmed table in the memcal.The system will stay in 'Open Loop' until the following conditions are met:

    1. The O2 sensor has varying voltage output, showing that it is hot enough to operate properly. (This depends on temperature)
    2. The coolant sensor is above a specified temperature about 40oC/104oF.
    3. A specific amount of time has elapsed after starting the engine. (some say around 700 seconds, but this could vary by model)

    The specific values for the above conditions vary with different engines and are stored in the mem-cal. When these conditions are met, the system goes into 'Closed Loop' operation. In 'Closed Loop', the ECM will calculate the air/fuel ratio (injector on-time) based on the various sensors but mainly the O2 sensor. This allows the air/fuel ratio to stay very close to 14.7:1.
    Torque allows you to log a ton of info. I didn't have a good way to view it though until I found www.datazap.me. I like it because it is online based and I can view logs at home or at work.

    This screenshot is from yesterday when I was sitting waiting to pick up my kid at school. Closed loop. Most of this is me sitting idling in neutral. Note that the timing is wandering a little (a few degrees), but is generally pretty consistent. Just after the weirdo spike (what the heck?) I put it in gear, held my foot on the brake (note the area where the rpm drops down and vacuum drops) and the timing just goes bonkers. Once I put it back in park, the timing stabilized somewhat. Weird stuff, but definitely interesting.

    Click image for larger version

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    Not sure exactly what is going on there. Prior to switching loops, the truck runs great. After switching modes, which I believe is in the area of 550-600 seconds after startup.

    I'm going to keep logging different parameter and see what is causing this.

    What I REALLY need is an exhaustive list of PIDs and their formulas for this ECM (2007 F150 - 5.4L). There is just not a whole lot of info out there about it though.

  • BBR
    replied
    They both have their place I suppose. FORscan has a lot of Ford vehicles already decoded so it is easy to connect up and start collecting data. TorquePro is more flexible, but takes a lot more thought and involvement to get up and running because the PID info on the internet is hit or miss and you have to write the formulas yourself. (or at least key them in if someone out there has already figured it out) Sorta like using a PnP Megasquirt vs. building a MS kit from scratch. Same results, but one gets you feet less wetter.

    They are both super cheap and can output a CSV datalog file.

    Leave a comment:


  • CDMBill
    replied
    James, did you settle on the app you liked best or are you using both? I saw the Torque screen shot after you mentioned FORscan? I've been chasing a O2 code for some time and it's down to the upstream on the passenger side of my DD '03 F-150, which is a bitch to get to and I need a fancy socket. Nice sleuthing on this.

    Leave a comment:


  • StephanParis
    replied
    I see, how does a monitor pin activate the CMCV actuator though? I would think it just monitors instead of commands the actuator to move.

    Leave a comment:


  • BBR
    replied
    I grounded the black/white monitor wire. When it is grounded (voltage pulled low), the pcm thinks the cmcv valves are open. However, mine are still stuck closed because a wiring harness is mislocated and obstructing the actuator's movement.

    Leave a comment:


  • StephanParis
    replied
    Howdy!

    I'm having an issue similar to this, if not identical, on a used 2006 F-150 that I recently purchased. It had a dozen DTC codes that I managed to get rid of after some work but one remains no matter what I do: P2006. Acceleration is very sluggish and it takes forever to get up to 50-55mph. I've replaced the VCT to get rid of some of the other codes and also replaced the CMCV aka IMRC actuator but this code still remains. I also have the Forscan app and the OBDLink MX bluetooth scan tool so used it to monitor what the inputs to the CMVC were and it's doing exactly as you described. When the CMCV Command circuit is active the CMCV Fault has an identical matching signal. The monitor however doesn't have any kind of signal regardless of what the other 2 are doing. I also noticed that the Command signal goes away after a couple minutes and flatlines for the rest of the drive.

    So after reading some threads on f150online.com and other F-150 forums I followed the procedure you posted but the grounding the CMCV Command wire didn't do anything at all. The CMVC didn't actuate and there was no change on the monitor wire. I assume that you meant you grounded the blue/orange wire which is pin 50 and not the black/white wire pin 43 b/c that one is the monitor and not the command pin, per the instructions posted.

    Anyhow, so this is rather puzzling as either the wiring is damaged and open or grounded where it shouldn't be or the brand new Motorcraft CMCV actuator I installed was DOA. I didn't know the P2006 code would be so persistent otherwise I would have bench tested the actuator and also tested the wiring directly at the CMCV connector.

    Any suggestions?

    Leave a comment:


  • Huskinhano
    replied
    Pretty cool stuff! I'm going to have to start reading this section of the forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • BBR
    replied
    Just thought I would add a screenshot of a current datalog. Notice when the accelerator pedal (green line) is mashed from 0 mph, the ignition timing (white line) rises and actual throttle position (pink line) really stays closely in sync with the accelerator pedal.

    Click image for larger version

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  • TheSilverBuick
    replied
    Noted!!

    Leave a comment:


  • BBR
    replied
    lmao! Yeah, the proper verbage is "Sounds like clogged cats", so make sure you get it right!

    Leave a comment:


  • TheSilverBuick
    replied
    Next time you have an issue with your mustang I'm going to suggest the catalytic converter

    Leave a comment:


  • BBR
    replied
    It's been fun learning how to datalog, read the logs and pick through them to find the cause of a drivability problem without throwing a bunch pf parts at it hoping it fixes it.

    The advice (and I use that term loosely) you sometimes get on forums is horrid. Everything from "the foam sealing your air filter is bad" to "clean your throttle body" to "change your plugs" to "bad 02's" to "clogged cats" (my favorite) are the typical responses. The "clogged cats" comes up in just about every drivability thread and I just want to scream and throw heavy objects at the computer screen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Teddyzee
    replied
    Cool thread, thanks for sharing this stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • BBR
    replied
    No they do not because they are made into the plastic intake manifold. They are separate on a Mustang so you can just install delete plates.

    I went ahead and ordered an actuator today and will install it when I get time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Russell
    replied
    Do they make imrc delete for your motor, seems like I have heard of that on other mod motors?

    Leave a comment:

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