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NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

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  • #16

    Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

    Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

    clevelands are great , especially when john kaase builfs em
    mod motors make no power without boost

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    • #17

      Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

      Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

      Obviously you haven't read the current issue of "Engine Masters" or any of Sean Hyland's or Richard Holdener's books on Modular power. There have been plenty of "built" Modular engines that have made in excess of 500 h.p. "all motor."

      Also note that technically speaking, the engines that have been winning at EMC aren't "Clevelands," but 400M-based powerplants. Although the splayed-valve heads are interchangeable, they are not "Clevelands."

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      • #18

        Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

        Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

        There is no 400M, only a 400. Little detail, but often overlooked. ;D

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        • #19

          Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

          Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

          You've trapped me! :o

          The 335 Ford engine family is composed of the 351M and 400. Too many occasions of seeing "351M/400" has clouded my recall.

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          • #20

            Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

            Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

            You've trapped me! :o
            Hmmmm, chinks in the armor... ;)

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            • #21

              Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

              Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

              You've trapped me! :o

              The 335 Ford engine family is composed of the 351M and 400. Too many occasions of seeing "351M/400" has clouded my recall.
              A Ford 400 is technically the same as a 351M only a taller deck right? Otherwise the same?

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              • #22

                Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                500 hp ? you know you can do that with a 2500 dollar 350 ? every mod motor racing has boost
                I have seen enogh of the innards of a mod motor from working on used cars to say , they are better than a cad 4100 , but just barely

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                • #23

                  Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                  Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                  smokey told us in 88 that an efi cannot outpower a carb
                  numbers don't lie - CARBS WIN

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                  • #24

                    Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                    Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??


                    [/quote]

                    A Ford 400 is technically the same as a 351M only a taller deck right? Otherwise the same?
                    [/quote]

                    Not exactly. They use the same block with some year to year differences. Just a stroke difference really, swap the rotating assembly from a 351M with a 400 rotating assembly and you have a 400. The 351C had a shorter deck and other differences. Some guys get their panties in a wad if you put the M after the 400 for some crazy reason. I was just having some fun about the M part, doesn't really matter to me.

                    Back to the EFI and carbs. How close were the EFI guys to the carbs? I think if there were a real advantage to EFI in this application, some of the top competitors would use it. I bet they probably know their way around EFI.

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                    • #25

                      Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                      Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                      smokey told us in 88 that an efi cannot outpower a carb
                      numbers don't lie - CARBS WIN

                      And I'm sure he was right in 1988. Injectors, controllers, and accumulated knowledge has come a long way in twenty years. I'd like to know what he would say now.

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                      • #26

                        Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                        Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                        smokey told us in 88 that an efi cannot outpower a carb
                        numbers don't lie - CARBS WIN
                        WOW man get outside a little, Ronald Wilson Reagan was Pres. a lot has changed.

                        Smokey would still fight it, and be wrong again.

                        He was a great mind, but limited, when it came to things like this, he proved it when he wanted to ban Foreign companies from Indy when they where kicking our ass.

                        He wanted to Ban them, not compete against them.
                        2007 SBN/A Drag Week Winner & First only SBN/A Car in the 9's Till 2012
                        First to run in the .90s .80s and .70's in SBN/A
                        2012 SSBN/A Drag Week Winner First in the 9.60's/ 9.67 @ 139 1.42 60'
                        2013 SSBN/A Drag Week, Lets quit sand bagging, and let it rip!

                        Comment


                        • #27

                          Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                          Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                          hee hee , a took awhile to get this one rolling , I have dealt with efi almost from day 1 on customers cars , so being a luddite who prefers carbs on hot rods is still pretty valid

                          seems like custom efi needs more "tuning" than carbs

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                          • #28

                            Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                            Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                            irl has been in the death spiral for a long time ........

                            Comment


                            • #29

                              Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                              Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                              Not than a carb at that level, Price a set of Dale Cubic Pro Sock Carbs :o
                              2007 SBN/A Drag Week Winner & First only SBN/A Car in the 9's Till 2012
                              First to run in the .90s .80s and .70's in SBN/A
                              2012 SSBN/A Drag Week Winner First in the 9.60's/ 9.67 @ 139 1.42 60'
                              2013 SSBN/A Drag Week, Lets quit sand bagging, and let it rip!

                              Comment


                              • #30

                                Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                                Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

                                Well I have to say that 'as someone who was there' I was also a little surprised at how few EFI entries there were. Mark McKeowen's mod motor was set up to run either efi or a carb and he wasn't positive which one he was going to run until the day he ran it. There was even speculation in the crowd that he would do his warm up runs on the carb then switch to efi for the 'money shots'. Turns out he just ran the carb all the way. I talked with him after and he said the carb just made better power across the whole range (just barely - but enough). Tuning the ignition curve is one of the benefits of most modern efi systems and you can still do that with the computer but run a carb, giving the best of both worlds in a WOT condition.

                                It sounds funny to say but even after 100+ years of carbs, it seems that most people can't really learn to tune them as easily as an EFI system. I think that seeing a screen and visually knowing where you are moving the fuel works better for most people than guessing was bleed and jet changes will do.

                                The one LSx that ran efi did really well and I was happy to see him place well. I can't remember how he fared compared to the carbed LS engines that were there and they haven't published the rest of the results for some reason but we can go through the daily numbers to see how they compared.

                                Will EFI ever make to the finals or win? hard to say but I would say the FOR THIS CONTEST which is only in a WOT dyno room test, a carb has a slight advantage. Good atomization with a cooling effect picks up just a little. If they dropped the range back down to 2500 or 2000 rpm I think that EFI might have a shot as the tunnel ram setups get a little funky down low. That being said, they make tons of torque in mid and high range. I think they should let multiple throttle bodies and welded injector bungs for EFI then you could run them on a tunnel ram. Should make a little closer at least.

                                No if we can get Scott to talk the EFI Source guys into getting us an EMS system for next year we could test that....

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