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  • what pump and regulator?

    I just had an odd thing happen where the fuel pressure dropped to 20. Don't know if it is the pump or regulator, but thought I might get recommendations on what to pick up next time, or as spares.

    I need 50 psi at the injectors, it is a stock 5.9 magnum, so no high hp stuff needed.

    I am currently running an aeromotive regulator, return style and a MSD fuel pump.


    update: a bit late, but didn't realize this was out there.
    I found out what the problem was.
    when I put this together, there was no exhaust in the car.
    So I mounted the pump on the rail just infront of the rear wheel.

    dork that put in my exhaust, routed it right up against the fuel pump.
    I couldn't even put my hand between the exhaust and the pump.

    so when I would sit still or idle for long periods of time, it would overheat the pump to where it basically shut down. or gave me that 20 psi.

    once it cooled off, it ran like normal.

    I replaced the pump just incase the damage was done, and remounted the new one over the rear diff, above the tank so I wouldn't have this problem again.
    Last edited by Andrewh; August 27th, 2014, 10:53 AM.

  • #2

    Re: what pump and regulator?

    Re: what pump and regulator?

    One pump that is way overlooked is the Bosch CS type pump. They came in many many many different German cars over the last 25 years and though there are some different variations they all will move enough fuel to cover between 400-500hp at 50psi with no probs and most will cover 6-700hp. Go check out an auto parts store that still has a paper catalog and look through their fuel pump sections.

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    • #3

      Re: what pump and regulator?

      Re: what pump and regulator?

      coud the problem be a clogged filter?
      www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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      • #4

        Re: what pump and regulator?

        Re: what pump and regulator?

        I had considered that, but it maintained the 20psi even when running. And no change to the regulator made a difference in the pressure.

        So I am at a loss for which one had the problem.

        Most feel the areomotive regulator is probably not it and the pump had a problem.

        So I will check out the bosch one, and I have been looking into the TRE and walbro pumps.

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        • #5

          Re: what pump and regulator?

          Re: what pump and regulator?

          Andrew,

          What you said makes me still ask. Did you check the filter? And your pressure gauge?

          If the regulator didn't change, and adjusting it does no good, I would say you have a clog in the line or in the return. That is very common. And if the return isn't large enough, you will have an unresponsive regulator.

          How long did the combo run with no issues? Does it still run fine with only 20lbs indicated?
          "A cross thread is better than a lock washer." Earl Lanning...My Grandpa

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          • #6

            Re: what pump and regulator?

            Re: what pump and regulator?

            it cleared up after 15 min of sitting and went to 60 psi indicated. Ran the 20 min home like that.
            I adjusted it back down to 50 psi.

            Drove it another 4 hours the next weekend with no problems.
            Still indicating 50 psi.

            Would not stay running at 20 psi. It would start, but would die.

            I have not opened up the filter yet, and honestly see no point.

            My best guess again is the pump didn't like the idleing around at 10mph for an hour. But I have idled it in the driveway longer.

            But looking up the pump again to get another just incase shows that they down rated the max psi, and that might be the issue. Not sure. It was an 80 psi pump and now only shows as a 45 psi pump.

            So I am looking at the walbro or the TRE.

            I also found a rather compact regulator for the LS1 said to put it to 60 psi, no adjustment. Might look at that as a temp spare to carry around as well.

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            • #7

              Re: what pump and regulator?

              Re: what pump and regulator?

              Obviously Aeromotive is a sponsor of the site, but I would still recommend them even if they weren't. I have only had one of their pumps fail, and it was after sitting for years with fuel in the lines. Literally like 8 years. I pulled it apart, cleaned it, and it is mint now. You can't go wrong with their stuff. In fact, the one that I pulled apart was one of their Tsunami pumps and it is not intended to be rebuilt at home. I had to un-solder the connections inside the pump, but I re-soldered them after cleaning and it was perfect.
              "A cross thread is better than a lock washer." Earl Lanning...My Grandpa

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              • #8

                Re: what pump and regulator?

                Re: what pump and regulator?

                it cleared up after 15 min of sitting and went to 60 psi indicated. Ran the 20 min home like that.
                I adjusted it back down to 50 psi.

                Drove it another 4 hours the next weekend with no problems.
                Still indicating 50 psi.

                Would not stay running at 20 psi. It would start, but would die.

                I have not opened up the filter yet, and honestly see no point.

                My best guess again is the pump didn't like the idleing around at 10mph for an hour. But I have idled it in the driveway longer.

                But looking up the pump again to get another just incase shows that they down rated the max psi, and that might be the issue. Not sure. It was an 80 psi pump and now only shows as a 45 psi pump.

                So I am looking at the walbro or the TRE.

                I also found a rather compact regulator for the LS1 said to put it to 60 psi, no adjustment. Might look at that as a temp spare to carry around as well.
                I hate to be argumentative - but, the problesm you describe is about 99.9% likely NOT the pump at all. The pump has no idea if you are idling or cruising or racing - it's straining against the same pressure all the time (on a naturally aspirated engine with a vacuum reference, there's maybe 12psi difference but it's MORE under load, less at idle).

                If swapping pumps makes you happy, I'd still suggest looking at your wiring, and your filter setup.
                www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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                • #9

                  Re: what pump and regulator?

                  Re: what pump and regulator?

                  DG, you hate to be argumentative?? What!!

                  Dude, change the damn filter. It doesn't take any time, its inexpensive and it eliminates it as a potential problem.

                  My money is on it being a filter problem. If you want to spend money on pumps, go ahead, just save enough to buy a filter.

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                  • #10

                    Re: what pump and regulator?

                    Re: what pump and regulator?

                    If you change the pump why wouldn't you change the filter with it? Replacing a clean filter unneccisarily will cost you a few dollars, not replacing it and changing the pump instead might cost you the new pump when it burns out due to the clog. Sounds to me like a clogged filter. Worst case is that the $10 filter doesn't clear it up and you end up buying a pump that you thought you would anyway. I always start with the cheapest and most expendable part of the equation.

                    Only way the pump has any idea what the engine is doing is if it's one of the new returnless Pulsewave Modulated pumps where the ECM controls the pump motor speed. On a return system the pump just pushes it up and what isn't used comes back, idle or WOT. You have a stock motor with stock injectors right? Short of a baddly mismatched pump (which I don't see MSD doing if this was the test mule) it should be fine.
                    Central TEXAS Sleeper
                    USAF Physicist

                    ROA# 9790

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                    • #11

                      Re: what pump and regulator?

                      Re: what pump and regulator?

                      I don't mind you telling me what I am doing wrong. That is why I am here. This is my first run at aftermarket efi.

                      I have no problem in changing the filter, as it is a little 2 dollar job.
                      http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...URLList=%5B%5D

                      It would be painless test mule, but my parts, so I put in an msd pump.

                      So maybe I put it in wrong.
                      I put that cheesy filter in the line first, then this pump.
                      http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-2225/

                      That goes through efi rubber line to ththis filter
                      http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-230101/
                      Which I have a refill for

                      Then the areomotive regulator
                      http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-13101

                      Too many filters? replace both?

                      I also thought to have a spare pump and regulator, but is that overkill?


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                      • #12

                        Re: what pump and regulator?

                        Re: what pump and regulator?

                        2 filters is ideal.
                        The pre pump filter is coarse or large particle collector
                        The after pump filter is fine or tiny particle collector to protect the injectors.
                        The fine one usually gets clogged.
                        Pump and regulator is likely fine unless heat damages the pump from prolonged pushing through a plugged filter.

                        Its always good to have a spare on drag week!

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                        • #13

                          Re: what pump and regulator?

                          Will the Bosch CS pumps handle E85?

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                          • #14

                            Re: what pump and regulator?

                            In my experience temporary losses in fuel pressure without loud noises from the pump usually indicate a partially clogged pick up in the tank. I don't know what you've got in the tank, but it may have sucked up a chunk of something (seen it in brand new tank installs as well as old conversions) Or, it may have sucked the sock filter up the pickup tube too far and blocked the tube. Stock sending units, especially repops can get loose and slip on the tube. None of this applies if youre running a swirl bucket and intank pump of course...
                            BKB
                            www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                            Bruce K Bridges

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