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  • The MegaSquirt explanation thread

    While the MegaSquirt official documentation covers almost any question someone may have about the system, it can take a lot of reading to find the answers. We've had a few BangShifters asking for a thread on the basics of the system here, so I thought I'd start one. For those of you who haven't heard of the MegaSquirt at all, it's basically a kit to build your own EFI controller, much like old Heathkits. Although now you can often buy them ready made, too, and a few versions only come fully assembled. I'll start off with an introduction to the devices in the MegaSquirt family, and a couple of common questions.

    Standard MegaSquirts

    These have both a processor number and a main board number. The processor can be switched out, allowing you to start with one version and upgrade later, but upgrading boards is another story.

    Main board types in production now:

    V2.2: Very similar to the original, basic MegaSquirt design. Has two outputs for driving high impedance injectors, a fuel pump output, an on/off idle speed control output, and basic sensor inputs, including an onboard MAP sensor.

    V3.0: This board adds a VR sensor input (aka a magnetic pickup), the ability to run large numbers of low impedance injectors, more provisions for ignition control, and more noise resistance. Currently the best-selling main board, and likely to be that way for a while.

    V3.57: Basically, you're looking at a machine assembled V3.0. Adds a couple minor improvements such as making PWM (Ford style) idle control standard and the ability to select the ignition input with pull-off jumpers instead of hardwired ones. Not sold as a kit.

    Note that it's often possible to add a lot more features than the ones I listed, through expansion boards, jumper wires, and sometimes even hot gluing extra transistors to the main board.

    And the processor types.

    MegaSquirt-I: Originally meant to control just fuel, it didn't take long for people to figure out how to modify the code to support basic, and sometimes not so basic, ignition control.

    MegaSquirt-II: A faster processor with about 100 times the injector control resolution of MegaSquirt-I. It also adds a stepper IAC driver chip, CAN communications that let it talk to other MegaSquirt-related devices, and a lot of new code features.

    Other MegaSquirt hardware

    Stimulator: A board that simulates the signal from a distributor and many of the sensors on an engine. Has blinking lights that respond to MegaSquirt outputs. Lets you test a MegaSquirt without putting it on the motor, for troubleshooting purposes.

    JimStim: A more sophisticated version of the Stimulator that can simulate a variety of crank angle sensors, and test more outputs. Naturally, it adds more blinking lights, too.

    Relay board: A MegaSquirt-specific relay module that can be used for rewiring a car from scratch.

    MicroSquirt: A miniature MegaSquirt-II based device, although it is missing a couple of the full sized version's features. Intended for things like motorcycles, but does turn up on cars.

    MicroSquirt Module: A small circuit board with many of the key functions of an ECU. Generally meant for third party companies to drop into their own devices, making for a cheap way to build a standalone ECU.

    eMS-Pro: A MegaSquirt-I based device that is related to the V3.57 board. Intended to give the MegaSquirt more functions without needing modifications, it adds a lot of inputs and outputs, such as nitrous control and boost control.

    GPIO board: Stands for General Purpose Input and Output. A bit more science project like than other MegaSquirt boards, it's designed so that you can put it together in different way to get different functions. The most common use is automatic transmission control, but it could also be an EGT measuring device or work like an OEM body control module. Can communicate with MegaSquirt-II based devices.

    MSPNP: A MegaSquirt built to plug into an OEM harness. Currently available for Miatas.

    DIYPNP: A build your own kit with an OEM ECU connector, based on the MicroSquirt Module. Can be configured to match different OEM pinouts. Currently only available for imports, but that will change.

    Future MegaSquirt items

    MegaSquirt-III: A processor upgrade you can add to existing MegaSquirts. Not only does this one add more processor speed, it adds internal data logging with an SD car and the ability to add an expansion card for sequential fuel and ignition, as well as a lot more inputs and outputs.

    MegaSquirt-II Sequencer: A Microsquirt-like device, only about twice as large (making it about 2/3 the size of a regular MegaSquirt). Uses the MegaSquirt-II processor and a second processor for sequential fuel injection.

  • #2
    Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

    Now, some of the more common questions:

    1. What's with the name?

    As you may have guessed, it was something Bowling & Grippo came up with on a whim, not something picked for marketing reasons. But once you've picked a name, it's better to stick with it.

    2. Which ones can do ignition control?

    While the MegaSquirt-I did not originally have this ability, it's possible to modify pretty much any MegaSquirt on the list for many types of ignition control. The MegaSquirt-II can work with more trigger wheel types, although any of them can work with a distributor.

    3. What are the advantages of a MegaSquirt-II over a MegaSquirt-I?

    The biggest one is the faster processor speed, which can make for more precise control if you're running large injectors. There's a very in depth comparison of Megasquirt versions and what does what here:

    Megasquirt EFI fuel injection and ignition control. Product information, support forums, documentation and downloads for Megasquirt and Microsquirt ECU. Official site for MS1/Extra, MS2/Extra and Megasquirt-3.


    4. Where can I find a base map for my engine?

    Sometimes, you can find one floating around the forums. The manual does cover how to create your own startup map by entering such things as engine size, injector size, and some details of the engine powerband. Maps typically will need a bit of tuning to make them run on a particular engine.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

      Nice write up Matt, definately a broad surface scratch but summarizes various parts nicely
      Escaped on a technicality.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

        I know that there are a lot of variations of things that can be used but to me, the hardest to interface from a sensor side is the crank sensor and for those of us that want a cam signal, the cam sensor.
        What types of crank and cam sensors are supported?
        Central TEXAS Sleeper
        USAF Physicist

        ROA# 9790

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

          make this one a sticky...
          so it's not lost in the change over..

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

            so on a bbc with nos and a s/c in it's future you'd use the ems pro..
            or is that just doing away with add on boards?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

              Originally posted by IRONHEAD
              so on a bbc with nos and a s/c in it's future you'd use the ems pro..
              or is that just doing away with add on boards?
              It's doing away with add on circuits that you might make yourself, but it's also adding a commercial-grade warranty (and semi-commercial-grade tech support, me! lol). EMS-pro is the one unit listed that's most comparable to, say, a BigStuff3 or Haltech. The rest of them are quite a bit more "DIY intensive" but nothing that anyone on this forum cannot handle by themselves, IMO.

              www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

                Originally posted by dieselgeek
                Originally posted by IRONHEAD
                so on a bbc with nos and a s/c in it's future you'd use the ems pro..
                or is that just doing away with add on boards?
                It's doing away with add on circuits that you might make yourself, but it's also adding a commercial-grade warranty (and semi-commercial-grade tech support, me! lol). EMS-pro is the one unit listed that's most comparable to, say, a BigStuff3 or Haltech. The rest of them are quite a bit more "DIY intensive" but nothing that anyone on this forum cannot handle by themselves, IMO.

                so.. the ms1 with addones is the same..
                just a packaging and not a kit

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

                  Originally posted by IRONHEAD
                  so.. the ms1 with addones is the same..
                  just a packaging and not a kit
                  no, not quite. MS1 is the CPU (chip). If the MS1 is on a v3.0 or v3.57 circuit board, with all the MS1-extra (software that runs on MS1 chip) hardware options installed, then it's really close to a EMS-pro. The main difference being, the EMS-pro still gives you a "you can't kill it" warranty, but if you do something dumb like short the starter or alternator wire and fry components in your megasquirt, it's on you to figure out what you cooked and repair it. Also, the EMS-pro has some upgraded protection on certain circuits to make it less sensitive to those kinds of "user mistakes"

                  It also passed significant ISO and UL testing that's used on OEM ECUs, which is something that only a few other standalone EMS's have done.

                  The version 3.57 hardware does copy some of those improvements, but the downer is that it's not serviceable by the end user - it's all tiny surface mount components.

                  There is some talk of an MS-3 based EMS-pro in the future, as the MS-3 is really bringing the features that no other EMS's can do: onboard logging directly to an SD card is huge, that right there eliminates the need for a RacePak in addition to an existing standalone. Also has sequential injection (makes a great marketing tool for the Internet Experts) and individual cylinder trims.

                  www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

                    Originally posted by CTX-SLPR
                    I know that there are a lot of variations of things that can be used but to me, the hardest to interface from a sensor side is the crank sensor and for those of us that want a cam signal, the cam sensor.
                    What types of crank and cam sensors are supported?
                    It supports a good deal of the common domestic setups. I'll rank them by their ease of installation. Note - this is with the stock sensors, assuming you're not changing either sensors or trigger wheels.

                    Easy

                    I've seen all of these done a bazillion times, and there's how-to guides posted everywhere. The mods required and settings are all pretty simple.
                    • Ford TFI distributors
                    • GM HEI 7 or 8 pin distributor
                    • Chrysler Lean Burn distributor
                    • Ford EDIS distributorless ignition
                    • MSD distributor with magnetic pickup
                    • MSD distributor with Flying Magnet crank wheel


                    Intermediate

                    You may need to look a bit harder to find documentation, and these generate a bit more tech support emails than the ones on the Easy list. But all of them can be done, and there's generally pretty decent how-to guides.
                    • Ford distributorless ignition without external module
                    • Electromotive / Bosch crank triggers
                    • Buick C3I, OBD-1 Saturn, or Cadillac Northstar with external DIS module
                    • Optispark as a distributor
                    • Dodge Neon
                    • Older distributors with mechanical advance
                    • Chrysler / Mitsubishi 3.0 V6
                    • Ford V6 Probe


                    Advanced

                    There are examples of these known to exist, but either there's some controversy over how to set them up, the writeups are hard to find, it's a very new mode with few people having tested it, or there are other potential issues to consider. I'll explain them all.

                    LS1 - Evidently there was some issues with using it with the generic wheel mode; there's now a specialized LS1 mode in the MS2 beta code.

                    318 / 360 Magnum - There's at least one known example, but the next person who tried it ran into problems splitting the sensor signals with the stock ECU. I'm pretty sure if someone with decent MegaSquirt skills had one of these to experiment with, they could pull it off.

                    Chrysler 4.7 SOHC and new Hemi - works with next generation Neon mode in MS2, if you're OK with wasted spark.

                    Chrysler 2.2 / 2.5 Turbo - There is a write up for MS2, but not in the official manual.

                    Late '80s Jeep 4.0 with Rennix ECU - Can be done with some creative use of the MS2 Bowling & Grippo wheel decoder.

                    GM DIS with 7X wheel - It's in the MS2 code, but there is no official writeup.

                    No known running examples
                    • Buick C3I or Northstar, without module
                    • Optispark as trigger for DIS (wait for MS3)
                    • '90s era Jeep 4.0
                    • Viper V10
                    • Dodge 3.9 V6 Magnum

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

                      OK ..
                      thanks for The extra info..
                      now.. I plan on building the kit.. more than likely a msI
                      when is that possessor to slow...when do you hit its limit..... I'd think the more inputs/outputs you add the slower it get..
                      when is it best to change to the ms II possessor..
                      I already read about the better injector resolution, but what does that mean... in layman's terms...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

                        The real limit is that you'll have trouble getting a very smooth, OEM-like idle with large injectors. The injector resolution is best thought of as the ability to keep precise fuel control even when you're trying to dribble very small amounts of fuel out of very large injectors.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

                          Originally posted by Matt Cramer
                          The real limit is that you'll have trouble getting a very smooth, OEM-like idle with large injectors. The injector resolution is best thought of as the ability to keep precise fuel control even when you're trying to dribble very small amounts of fuel out of very large injectors.
                          OK.. got it..
                          so to idle nice with big injectors..
                          what is considered big?
                          dg said I'd need 50-60lb injectors for my 454 . is that big.?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

                            Originally posted by IRONHEAD
                            Originally posted by Matt Cramer
                            The real limit is that you'll have trouble getting a very smooth, OEM-like idle with large injectors. The injector resolution is best thought of as the ability to keep precise fuel control even when you're trying to dribble very small amounts of fuel out of very large injectors.
                            OK.. got it..
                            so to idle nice with big injectors..
                            what is considered big?
                            dg said I'd need 50-60lb injectors for my 454 . is that big.?
                            Those aren't big. But they'd support your current power request, and much much more down the road (saves you from having to upgrade later). I doubt that you plan on trying to meet emissions laws, and even with injectors 3x thatsize, you'll be able to tune an idle and warmup that significantly impresses you when compared to a carburetor on a 500-600hp BB engine.

                            From my experience, which tends more towards what you are building Mark, you're not going to need the "high resolution" idle. Personally, I think it's wildly overrated unless you're dong a tiny 1.6 liter near-stock engine. I've always thought the "high res" codes were basically unnecessary - in other words, I never once found myself wishing I had more resolution on the injector pulse when I was tuning *any* engine. The concern is, for example, if you are idling with big injectors say around 1.5 milliseconds of pulsewidth, going to 1.4 or 1.6 milliseconds is a significant jump in fuel. I have guys idling like a stocker with 160 lb injectors (Huber's 4 cylinder mustang, or gary hart's studebaker) so, in reality - the resolution improvement may require you to work a little less at the idle tune, but it's a fancy feature at best (IMO).

                            www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The MegaSquirt explanation thread

                              ok thanks.. this is all new to me..
                              when I think 50-60 lb injectors when mustangs and f bodys has 19-22..
                              I think huge..
                              ..
                              I'll be ordering a kit soon..
                              sounds like the msI with 3.0 board and ms extra firmware is the ticket

                              Comment

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