Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

diy efi, ez efi, or carb

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • diy efi, ez efi, or carb

    what to do...ok, i dont really want to stay with a carb.
    my car is a pretty mild big block duster with a viper 6 speed with .50 od and 3.73 gears. i put 6,000 miles on it from the spring to fall this year. id like to add an efi setup. i picked up a 2nd hand ez efi, it was opened but never installed. i like the fact it self learns, its got a nice throttle body, but i do understand once, it learns, its pretty much done with that feature until you make a change. i always liked the port injection design more than a tb setup.i started liking the option with MS to control the ignition too. im not sure what i want to go with.
    im running a holley 3310 that stinks like hell at idle and i havent nailed down the secondary jetting yet. i started out with a cheap nos thermoquad but i couldnt get around driveability issues. i guess there was a reason it stayed nos all those years. i swore if i could get that car figured out id stick with it.
    its a smogger 400 with fresh rings and a small cam, headers , performer intake. on the highway it will get 19-20 mpg, but i have yet to see more. i think the cr is holding it back. i will probably build something a little better down the road, most likely some kind of stroker, either 451 or 500, but no matter what i build i want to keep a smallish cam to work good with the 1500 rpm cruise so in the end i doubt id ever make over 500 hp. i have never played with circut boards, i have no clue about that stuff. i understand house wiring and car wiring but thats about it. im only 31 but halfway computer illiterate too.
    my buddy picked up what looks like a complete lt1 intake from the trash and will give it to me, i was hoping i could use the injectors and sensors, i have a few different intakes, i can tig the injector bungs in, and i figure a home made holley main body throttle body. i think the injectors are too small, i did find some calculators online. what is a safe psi to run stock injectors at to make up for them being small? i was reading a link of a guy in europe the other day and he started with a single plae setup, but said it had awful low end and in a truck he needed more, so built a new manifold out of a dual plane and claimed it was much better. i thought that was wierd.
    so is some kind of MS for me?
    what is a safe fuel pressure?
    where to get injector bungs, and any good links to modifying an intake for efi?
    whats the thinking behind intake manifolds for the diy efi? keep in mind its a cruiser. i have performer, performer rpm, torker whick im thinking is what id start with, and an m1 single plane. the torker is more of an X shape and lower hieght which will help, the m1 is more of a highrise with curved runners similar to a victor, id like to keep that for my other car, but i could pick up another if it was ideal.

  • #2
    If youve already got the EZ system, but want Multi port, Ebay the EZ TB and buy the multiport injector harness from FAST. Modify a good manifold with injector bungs and fuel rails and you are set. FAST, F&B, Marren, etc all offer bungs for sale as well as fuel rails/rail stock. I believe F&B even has fuel rails for your big block ready to go and cheap...Fuel pressure needs to be between 40 and 60 psi more or less...Nothing beats MPI with ignition control, but the EZ is a decent system that you already own...You can always do something a bit more exotic (and more fun and more $$) like this : If you need bungs and rails, feel free to PM. Manifolds prettty much work the same way they do with the carb regarding power bands... Longer runners make more bottom end, short runners make better top end. Dual planes work great for MPI conversions as do single planes, but they need to be compatible with the motor's build. Thats why I like the 6bbl intakes, they work with almost any build up, mild to wild.
    BKB
    Attached Files
    Last edited by BKBridges; December 21, 2011, 12:10 PM.
    www.FBthrottlebodies.com
    Bruce K Bridges

    Comment


    • #3
      the calculator i was looking at, looked like the stock 24 lb/hr lt1 injectors at 60 psi would work. i wasnt sure if that was too much or what. right now the thing isnt making any power. im on a budget, well there is no set budget, i just try to do everything with this car as cheap as i can.
      i liked the ez setup more than any other out of the box setup i thought one day... a guy i knew was selling so i sold what i had to, to get it. it just seems like it has its restrictions.
      what would i be missing out on if i use the ez out of the box, compared to mp with ignition control? if it looks like the lt1 stuff can get me going i will probably start on the intake soon since that is all pretty much free. i want to use the torker since they are a dime a dozen intake for the low deck mopar, almost hard to get rid of, but i think work pretty damn good.
      i didnt think the intakes had the same effects when used dry thats interesting.

      Comment


      • #4
        If you are looking to just get out and drive it, not looking for that last 5% of HP, etc, then I'd probably stick with what you have and bolt on the EZ-EFI. The distributor likewise can be made to work fine for drivability if you aren't looking for the last 5%. I found with a .64 overdrive ratio, I had a hard time finding the right balance between mecanical and vacuum advance (that I wanted to run) due to the low cruising rpm. It can be done, but takes some trial and error with the weights, springs and adjustable vacuum can (or several cans).

        You can get pre-built MegaSquirts. Harnesses aren't too bad to put together (DIYautotune.com sells a pretty good kit, IMO). But wiring comes pretty easy to me.

        The impression I get is you'd likely be satisfied with the EZ-EFI. Or at least give it a try.
        Escaped on a technicality.

        Comment


        • #5
          If you have the EZ-EFI, stick it on and try it out!! Then report back to us.

          You know that you can use the EZ TBI and run it with a different computer if you want to step up to ignition control later on. TBI isn't a bad place to start learning about EFI - I say go for it.
          www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

          Comment


          • #6
            when i used to run my car at the track, i was always looking for that every single last bit i could get out of it. i like that stuff. the harness is no big deal, im not really intimidated by building the megasquirt, just never did something like that.
            im looking to do better because it seems like the carb is never going to be 100% all around especially with the .5 od, i think the ignition control could be improved but i guess it wouldnt make as big of a difference as the efi alone. the mopars you can pretty much just change the legth of the advance slot by welding and filing, and change the springs, there are no diggerent weights.

            ive had this setup a few months and really cant decide on what to do for the pump. where ot put it. thats the big hold up for me. i dont want to spend 800 on a tank. hell i dont even want to spend the 300 or whatever it is for the piece id weld into my tank, for what it is. im not crazy about the surge tank setup.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm planning on using a pump from a '90 Ford Econoline ( I think this is also what Randall is using?) Its external, readily available at parts stores, adequate enought for future updates to MPI, and relatively cheap.

              For a surge tank, I have a oil filter adapter that I'm extending the pickup to pull from the bottom (simply soldering an extension to it) and will mount a 10 micron large fuel filter that I will be sourcing from an Ag dealership (where I work)

              Kills 2 birds with one stone. I'll also have a 60ish micron filter before the pump.

              Now if I could just find a TBI from a 7.2 454 reasonable. I just can't bring myself to put a 400cfm 5.7 TBI on a 500 Cadillac.....sure it would run and work, just seems wrong.

              Good luck, and keep us in on the progress!
              Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yup, I'm using a ford external pump, about $100 at the local Napa, but I did run a junkyard one for over a year, and just replaced it to replace it so the junkyard one is my back up. The old style junkyard one pulls about 3 amps more than the newer parts store one.

                I'm not sure if the stock TBI fuel pressure regulator can handle the psi the Ford pump puts out. Supposibly the ford pumps are rated up to 90psi, and that's a lot of down rating to get to 15-20psi. I have a 670cfm Holley 2bbl TBI on the Thunderbird, and have a new fuel pump, rated at 20psi, on the way because the parts store cheapy that caps out around 12psi on a good day isn't enough at higher rpm/load (fine for highway and daily driving stuff though). Funny enough, the stock mechanical fuel pump is enough to let the engine idle and rev in neutral. Shocked the heck out of me when I pulled the electric pump fuse to check something while cranking and the engine fired up anyways I want to put a ball valve on the fuel tank return line and see how well the engine will run just off the stock mechanical pump. Enough to get me home in a pinch? [/hijack]
                Escaped on a technicality.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by STINEY View Post
                  Now if I could just find a TBI from a 7.2 454 reasonable.


                  ???Since the regulator is a bypass type, and never sees full pump pressure, would it really be a problem?
                  Last edited by squirrel; December 22, 2011, 07:59 AM.
                  My fabulous web page

                  "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I simply don't know. Isn't there an upper limit for pressure regulation, that after a certain point the pump will over run the regulator? I thought about simply hooking up my spare ford pump, but fear of blowing out a seal, the regulator, or even the injectors kept me from doing so. And usually I don't fear much =/
                    Escaped on a technicality.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Stiney - I ran a luberfiner 10 micron fuel filter on an old diesel project when I switched from mechanical to electric fuel pump (7.3 IDI)
                      I still have the filter - I can get you the number off of it - I think it holds between 1 and 2 quarts, it's pretty tall - not sure how that would package on the caddy-fox - but it's a place to start anyway.
                      There's always something new to learn.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My bad then...... what is your on-the-way fuel pump for the TBI setup Randall?

                        Thanks for the link Squirrel. I snagged it, now I am fighting with Paypal. When did they decide to enact a limit to what you can spend on your personal credit card (not paypal card)? Sheesh! (its because I'm not verified, they want my bank acct #- not gonna happen, or for me to sign up for THEIR card, although I can still use my other ones) $2000 lifetime limit if not verified = stupid.


                        That part # would be great John. We carry FleetGuard filters so cross-referencing it would be a great start. That's actually about the size I had in mind.
                        Last edited by STINEY; December 22, 2011, 09:07 AM.
                        Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          An expensive one from summit, $116, about the same price as the Ford one. The local Napa couldn't order one, I tried =P Looks like it's 17psi, close enough for me. There were one or two others on Summit for the pressure rating I wanted, but the gph were waaay low, and that concerned me. This one at 50gph should be more than adequate, I can see the T-bird burning almost a gallon a minute even at WOT.

                          Free Shipping - Airtex External Electric Fuel Pumps with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Fuel Pumps at Summit Racing.
                          Last edited by TheSilverBuick; December 22, 2011, 08:43 AM.
                          Escaped on a technicality.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            EZ EFI!!! Dad has a pretty good relationship with the guys at comp cams and all their sister companies and they send us products to test. So dad and i had the honors to be the test mule of the EZ efi system and do comercial about installing it. They sent a reported and we started at like 3 o'clock and 110 degrees one day and was driving by 11 o'clock the next. All-n-all we had about 6-7 hours in it.
                            We had to make a return line from the throttle body back to the tank. Since the firewall was already painted we just mounted the ecu on the firewall instead of drilling a 1 inch hole throught the firewall.
                            The first computer they sent us wasnt correct something was wrong with the insides so we sent it back, they sent us a new one and its been a dream.
                            if you want to see myself programing it its on cpgnation.com i was 12 at the time and i programed it
                            The youngest guy on the board
                            76 vega
                            86 fiero

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              64casteel,
                              Pretty much my experience with the FAST EZ... Almost too EZ. Felt wierd just driving it without a base tune to review and deal with, but install time was less than a weekend. I supply the 255lph Walbro in-line pumps with my basic kit and they work well. My Barracuda has been running one for a while now and even at less than a 1/4 tank there is no starvation during slalom work, just mount it below the bottom of the tank. The pump is good for about 500 hp they say (Im about 330hp in my app). I run the Mallory EFI 10micron filters (100.00 or so) as they look good, flow A Lot, and hold about a pint of gas in em for mini surge control. They do cost, but...The FAST TBI needs 43psi to work properly (45 is right out)... You must use a regulator that is adjustable. Change to the MPI version of the EZ and you can use the pre-set stuff like the Chevy C6 filter /regulator (60psi) or the Ford equiv. I included a pic of Mary P pushing on my Barracuda at the MATS this year with less than a 1/4 tank. Maybe the Non-Hotchkis suspesion reduces the Tank Gs enough to prevent losing pressure... Nah...
                              Attached Files
                              www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                              Bruce K Bridges

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X