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Can a caveman do DIY EFI? Nothing ventured, nothing gained...

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  • Changed the settings from 36 tooth wheel to distributor, the tach guage works fine now and the fuel pump light comes on and stays on when it should.

    The WarmUpEnrichment guage is a bit wonky...... keeps dropping till it goes off the chart and goes red. The WUE LED on the MSII stays lit then too, can be reset by powering off and powering on, stays off till the RPMs are raised then the previous pattern repeats.

    Looks to me like everything is working? Any other checks to run at this time?

    (Boy, the voltage sure drops when I "rev" it up! Hits the 9-10volt range and stays there till I back off the "throttle".)
    Last edited by STINEY; March 21, 2012, 11:30 AM.
    Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

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    • Good stuff.

      Batteries die quick with a stimulator, or are you using a wall wart or other power supply? I use a radioshack wall wart when on the road, a decent 25 amp DC power supply at home.

      The Warmup Enrichment should be based on coolant temp. Raise the CLT to 160 or above and it should get rid of warmup enrichment.

      Otherwise everything sounds like it's working ok!
      www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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      • Wall wart from the start. I briefly put a 9 volt on it, just to see if it would show the difference, then back to the wart.

        Its a 120vac 60hz 15w input - - 9vdc 300ma output that I rescued from the old electronics pile. Polarity was right so I rolled it.

        I'll have to try it again with the coolant all warmed up. Not tonight though.
        Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

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        • I've killed two wall power supplies. I'm thinking the stim, JimStim anyways, draws more current than my supplies wanted to supply.
          Escaped on a technicality.

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          • Stiney did you ever figure out the MAP sensor?
            www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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            • Works fine with warmed coolant!

              Accellerator Enrichment light never comes on. I'm watching it as I quickly rev the stim, nothing there.

              On the MAP, kinda. It is reading the proper numbers for my altitude (approx 700 above sea level) 98.4 today. I have to find a piece of adequate tubing to do further testing.....might rob the fish of their air line....
              Last edited by STINEY; March 7, 2012, 08:38 AM.
              Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

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              • Originally posted by STINEY View Post
                Works fine with warmed coolant!

                Accellerator Enrichment light never comes on. I'm watching it as I quickly rev the stim, nothing there.
                By default (and my recommendation) Accel enrichment isn't related to RPM rate of change - it's tied to rate of TPS travel. Give your TPS pot a whirl and see if you get accel enrichment then. If not you may need to adjust the TPS accel enrichment settings (accelleration wizard) so the enrichment comes in when you twirl the TPS potentiometer.

                Originally posted by STINEY View Post
                On the MAP, kinda. It is reading the proper numbers for my altitude (approx 700 above sea level) 98.4 today. I have to find a piece of adequate tubing to do further testing.....might rob the fish of their air line....
                That sounds right to me.
                Last edited by dieselgeek; March 7, 2012, 08:44 AM.
                www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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                • Accelerator enrichment works as it should. TPS and DG for the win!

                  Last edited by STINEY; March 7, 2012, 10:08 AM.
                  Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

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                  • See how a stim is a good idea? You'll completely understand the Method for how the engine is run/controlled, before you try starting it. So many guys (who buy aftermarket, expensive EFI systems) are at a HUGE disadvantage compared to you because they don't get the chance to test and understand before they try starting the engine. I think this is why so many guys who go the "commercial EFI route" either (a) don't get it, and give up, proclaiming EFI sucks or (b) have to settle for the "self tuning" systems that aren't better than (or prehaps even as good as) a normal carburetor.
                    www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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                    • The stim is an EXCELLENT idea.

                      Actually as soon as I understood that it was NOT included in the kit because you do not need one with each MS (its more of a tool, like the soldering iron), I was good with it.

                      I still believe that the EFI industry has room to improve their bottom line by doing a better job of communication. A lot of the terminology would be better served with plain language for their target audience. I may sound like a fool to the people I've been explaining this stuff to as I learn, but I am an EXCITED fool who is parting with his money, and that is good for sales.

                      At this point I am having visions of how easy an engine could start with the fuel and ignition outputs and the range they operate at.
                      No wonder EFI starts so easily..... it makes sense, like you said.

                      And I am stunned at the prices they are getting for the other aftermarket EFI stuff, ESPECIALLY when you learn that a lot of them are fuel only systems. That's a ton of money to spend for something that just delivers fuel. The way I see it, the actual efficiency and power potential increases lie in the ignition side, so no wonder so many people are disappointed with the mileage after a conversion.

                      Think of how a ignition curve works guys - - centrifical force will always creat a CURVE, no matter if the curve is steep or flat, it will still be a curve. You can change the shape of the curve, but it will still be a curve.

                      What if the engine doesn't necessarily WANT a curve? Optimally speaking, of course. Obviously they will run just fine with a curve, BUT if it will only run OPTIMALLY with something that is NOT a curve, then you will never achieve optimalism with distributor weights and springs.

                      This stuff is great. I'm going to have to drag something out of a barn real soon, so I can keep playing!
                      Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

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                      • By the time you are done creating a good solid tune for driving and racing you end up with a pretty interesting set of fuel and spark maps supplemented by a lot of other tables and adjustments. I've learned two things from the EFI conversion process: I'm amazed at how well the original carb, distributor, vacuum advance etc. stuff worked given the mechanical limitations they operate under and, all of those functions we think about in that context are replicated and made visible by EFI. Accel enrichment being a perfect example. Coming off a baseline when we first installed it in 2007, I was amazed at how much ET improvement we got doing the equivilent of changing accel pump cams, pump shooters, pump shot duration all things that would have taken 100's of drag strip passes and hundreds if not thousands in parts and tools to replicate what we did during a full day of track testing. Now if there was only a track to test at around here.
                        Last edited by CDMBill; March 14, 2012, 01:29 PM.
                        Drag Week 2006 & 2012 - Winner Street Race Big Block Naturally Aspirated - R/U 2007 Broke DW '05 and Drag Weekend '15 Coincidence?

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                        • So now that I have the MSII all assembled and it passes all of the test, I have to figure out my next step.

                          I could focus on building a relay board, ECU to relay board harness, finding sensors, or building fuel system?

                          The other stuff seems fairly clearcut at this point (famous last words!) so how about the fuel system. What I have is a bunch of parts that all need some fab work to complete. Here is what I have....

                          The '86 mustang I have came as a roller. Now, 1986 was the first year for MPI in the Mustang, this one had the EFI system butchered so removing the rest was a guilt-free experience, not that there was much left. It also had been relieved of its fuel tank along the way.

                          I found a good replacement tank locally, it has a intank electric pump, but that's all I know about it. No idea what year its from, nothing.

                          I also have a real nice mechanical fuel pump for the 500 Cadillac motor that's in the Mustang, its a 550hp unit from RobbMc.

                          Here are the specs on the RobbMc pump and a link: http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/cad550.html

                          Cadillac 550HP Fuel Pump Specifications:[LIST][*]For Engines Up To 550 horsepower[*]Can be upgraded later to an 1100HP for $100[*]Valve Body Can Be Rotated To Any Angle: No Disassembly Required[*]Maximum Output Pressure: 7 PSI (+/- 1) (about 1 psi less when using vapor return option PN 1010)[*]Side Inlet Port: 1/2 NPT[*]Bottom Outlet Port: 1/2 NPT[*]Recommended Fuel: Gasoline or gasoline/ethanol blends[*]Recommended MINIMUM Feed Line Size: 3/8" (or
                          Last edited by STINEY; March 21, 2012, 11:33 AM.
                          Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

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                          • GRRR!! All my typing is for naught! BS format keeps chopping it off, apparently we have a character limit now? If so it would be nice if it would stop you from typing at that point, instead of just dropping it.

                            So, any input? Electric near tank pump with stockish pickup? Sumped with electric near tank pump? Some oddball way to use the RobbMc pump I have? Or maybe a factory mustang pump that will not overwhelm the TBI?

                            Keep in mind that MPI MSII is a strong possibility in the future on this.
                            Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

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                            • I'd get the stock tank pump set up going. I've often wondered what the inlet pressure limits were for a TBI. Can the internal pressure regulator handle an inlet pressure over twice what it was originally designed for?
                              Escaped on a technicality.

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                              • What do GM TBI's reg pressure to? 14psi?

                                I'd probably get the stock pump going, reg it down and return to tank. Otherwise, if you move to something like an A1000, you will probably be looking at adding a sump to the tank, etc. But if you're like me, I do not like to do things twice, so I sumped the tank and got it over with.
                                Life is short. Be a do'er and not a shoulda done'er.
                                1969 Galaxie 500 https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/ba...ild-it-s-alive
                                1998 Mustang GT https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/ba...60-and-a-turbo
                                1983 Mustang GT 545/552/302/Turbo302/552 http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum...485-bbr-s-83gt
                                1973 F-250 BBF Turbo Truck http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum...uck-conversion
                                1986 Ford Ranger EFI 545/C6 https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/ba...tooth-and-nail

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