Originally posted by TC
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Can one EFI box make "more power" than another, all else being equal??
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Originally posted by dieselgeek View PostIt's probably not me you remember, but my customer. I know if it was *me* being told how bad Megasquirt sucks, you'd have remembered me. I promise.
As far as AEM not participating in the shootout, then who was it that made sure I was not allowed to see the AEM calibration before starting my own? Someone was sure interested in protecting the calibration that you imply was only basic. I have been told lots of things that contradict your statements here by people I trust - it's all hearsay and I don't actually care so, things are what they are. I was simply given a dyno sheet, told that the AEM calibration was under "nondisclosure" thus I couldn't use it as a reference point, and given a blank slate engine to tune. *SOMEONE* worked hard on the AEM tune because it was damn close to perfect. And since David told me he was optimizing per cylinder trims, what exactly do you mean by "advanced" features that weren't used? the only thing left is Injector phasing, and it wasn't worth the 7 hp (or 22 ft-lbs down low) we put on the AEM tune... it's a little sketchy to imply this wasn't a fair test. It was more than fair.
Also, it's good to see that AEM is changing their longstanding practice of sending out unfinished product (reference the firmware release histories of the Series 1 and Series 2 systems which I also have tuned for many years now). Maybe it would have been even better if they'd have shared at PRI that March 1st was an "estimate" because my customer was told "they go on sale March 1st." He was told other things I won't share here in an effort to keep this post from degrading beyond what it's already become.
Bottom line: I disagree with you that this test wasn't fair. I'm not super happy that AEM is here complaining about this post especially after some of the below-board practices I've observed firsthand. You guys should make sure that you have your best representation onsite if you want tests like this one to end in your favor. It's only 7hp and it's not like I posted "we kicked AEMs ass!" all over the internet.
Good day,
-Scott
As far as David Barton not showing off a customer’s tune… I think that’s about the most honorable and ethical thing that could have possibly happened and hats off to David for being so stand up. If I was the owner of a very competitive race car and found out my information was being broadcasted or shared to other people without my knowledge, I’d be livid!
This thread is about an ECU “shootout” and seven horsepower (approximately 1% difference). No one from AEM was invited or attended. I simply think it would be awesome if someone on the AEM side could join in next time and put up some fair competition. Can AEM bring a new Infinity box for the next round or is the decade old system mandatory?Last edited by AEM Devin; May 10, 2012, 11:16 AM.
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Originally posted by AEM Devin View PostAre you insinuating that I personally told Barton’s customer how bad Megasquirt sucks at PRI?
As far as David Barton not showing off a customer’s tune… I think that’s about the most honorable and ethical thing that could have possibly happened and hats off to David for being so stand up. If I was the owner of a very competitive race car and found out my information was being broadcasted or shared to other people without my knowledge, I’d be livid!
My suggestion is this: suck it up, because it was a perfectly fair shootout and you wouldn't be complaining about fairness or lack of representation if you'd have won. You or someone at AEM *would* get on the internet and broadcast the "Big Win" if it had happened in your favor, without a doubt. AEM already showed they're willing as a company to badmouth the competitors. I know you are a good guy but you know I'd get slaughtered online if we'd have lost any kind of similar shootout.
We might be able to arrange another shootout if that makes you happy. Bring your Infinity system if it's ready for sale at the time. Maybe we can get the guys who run this forum to set up an engine for us to test on. Who will the Calibrator be for AEM?
This thread is about an ECU “shootout” and seven horsepower (approximately 1% difference). No one from AEM was invited or attended. I simply think it would be awesome if someone on the AEM side could join in next time and put up some fair competition. Can AEM bring a new Infinity box for the next round or is the decade old system mandatory?
-Bartons tested using a decade old AEM system (nevermind that no newer system from AEM exists or was available for the test)
-the AEM system had no decent tuner representation (even though YOU have tuned on this very engine, and "some Pro" who tuned it afterwards, required nondisclosure)
-it was only a 1% gain in horsepower so no big deal
With all due respect, the above are EXCUSES. I am going to do my best to arrange an EFI shootout that DOES satisfy your requirements, but if I go through that, will you guys really show up? Let me know because personally, I view things like this as a learning experience. I even stated in my first post, I didn't show up expecting to do better, BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS ASKED TO DO.Last edited by dieselgeek; May 10, 2012, 01:18 PM.www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!
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Originally posted by TC View PostI'm sure there is Sarcasm in this statement........Because I know if you ask people on the this side of the country who Scott Clark or DieselGeek is they look at you like your from a foreign country.......Hell the Auto Shop teacher at my kids new school that built a MegaSquirt over 8 years ago didn't even know who he was........... But in the tiny world of HotRod Magazine he's made a name for himself.........Self Proclaimed greatest tuner, he'll tell ya..........2007 SBN/A Drag Week Winner & First only SBN/A Car in the 9's Till 2012
First to run in the .90s .80s and .70's in SBN/A
2012 SSBN/A Drag Week Winner First in the 9.60's/ 9.67 @ 139 1.42 60'
2013 SSBN/A Drag Week, Lets quit sand bagging, and let it rip!
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Originally posted by dieselgeek View PostMy customer said he was made to feel like an idiot by AEM employees "ganging up on him" telling him specifically that Megasquirt was no good, he needed to step up to the Infinity system, and he was almost convinced to install it on his car. Almost. Why not? because he never heard me badmouth AEM or anyone else, and didn't like the vibe he was getting from either you or your coworkers. I'm not insinuating anything, I'm telling you how he was treated. Meanwhile, March 1st was the stated date, it came and went. I heard other people who's name you are dropping frequently complain that they had "engines lying around waiting on the new AEM stuff" - it's great that YOU are a stand up guy, but YOU are here representing AEM - not Devin Pearce (sp? sorry) - so the least of your coworkers set the standard for the whole company. That's how it works, and you know this.
Originally posted by dieselgeek View PostDavid wasn't the one who didn't want to show me anything, it was the PROFESSIONAL CALIBRATION ENGINEER working on their AEM who required nondisclosure. Your claim that there was nobody anywhere onsite that knows anything about AEM, and that the tune on that engine was not very well sorted, is *beyond ridiculous.* .
Originally posted by dieselgeek View PostMy suggestion is this: suck it up, because it was a perfectly fair shootout and you wouldn't be complaining about fairness or lack of representation if you'd have won. You or someone at AEM *would* get on the internet and broadcast the "Big Win" if it had happened in your favor, without a doubt. AEM already showed they're willing as a company to badmouth the competitors. I know you are a good guy but you know I'd get slaughtered online if we'd have lost any kind of similar shootout.
Originally posted by dieselgeek View PostWe might be able to arrange another shootout if that makes you happy. Bring your Infinity system if it's ready for sale at the time. Maybe we can get the guys who run this forum to set up an engine for us to test on. Who will the Calibrator be for AEM?
So let's sum up your main complaints since you began posting in this thread:
-Bartons tested using a decade old AEM system (nevermind that no newer system from AEM exists or was available for the test)
-the AEM system had no decent tuner representation (even though YOU have tuned on this very engine, and "some Pro" who tuned it afterwards, required nondisclosure)
-it was only a 1% gain in horsepower so no big deal
(even though YOU have tuned on this very engine, and "some Pro" who tuned it afterwards, required nondisclosure) (nevermind I beat your efforts in 3 hours and 18 pulls)
With all due respect, the above are EXCUSES. I am going to do my best to arrange an EFI shootout that DOES satisfy your requirements, but if I go through that, will you guys really show up? Let me know because personally, I view things like this as a learning experience. I even stated in my first post, I didn't show up expecting to do better, BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS ASKED TO DO. .
I’m honored and enjoying my newly provided title. I’ve ordered a “Professional Calibration Engineer” plaque for my desk and will alert the other employees of my status. That being said, if there is another shootout (with other representatives allowed in this time), I know we can find a very proficient AEM tuner out there that would be happy to attend and join in the fun.Last edited by AEM Devin; May 10, 2012, 12:42 PM.
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Originally posted by JeffMcKC View PostTC you have shown the people yo hang with dont have a clue already that EFI even works only ofset wrist pins will make you go 300 mph with no other changes I would stay clear of trying to convince this guy your the smartest guy in the room
But hey, Dream On...............
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AEM I know your new and are representing a company, but don't suck up to his ass, he's been doing this stuff for like 5 years tops, I remember when he first came to these forums and was green as hell, he's still learning and gets lucky sometimes, definitely not the all king of tuners as his arrogant ass comes across as...............
And DG what is wrong with you, can't you reply in a decent respectful manner or do you always got to come across as a dick.........
I've always said the attitude in a person posting reflects the way their life is going, and buy the way you've been posting Life must be pretty shitty right now...........
Seriously though, go get laid!!!!!.........
I wouldn't have even posted it if I didn't care........
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Originally posted by AEM Devin View PostDavid and I spoke about someone outside Ray Barton Racing requesting calibration information at one point and both of us collectively agreed it would be in the customer’s best interest not to. There was never a nondisclosure. It was a simple and short conversation. David held the key from that point forward and as I said before I think it’s incredibly stand up for him to keep his customer’s information private.
Devin, all I can really suggest from this point forward to help keep yourself from getting into these "unknown shootout" situations is simply this: Treat EVERY tuning opportunity as though it's your own personal shootout. Realize that having YOUR system on ANY engine *IS YOUR REPRESENTATION* - don't make excuses for why you "could have" done better on the tune. Ray Barton Racing is one of the top racing engine builders in the country, I would NEVER show up there without being 100% prepared (i.e., my EMS wouldn't cause me a day of downtime because it was configured for a 4-cyl Honda by mistake). Whenever I set foot in anyone's garage or dyno shop, I treat it as a golden opportunity to let my products and efforts shine. Why bother making a trip to tune someone's engine if you're only later going to complain that "I didn't really work hard at it" or "we never were notified of a shootout" - sometimes, you don't know ahead of time that your work will be compared to others. Life's a shootout. Arrive prepared.
Have a better day,
-ScottLast edited by dieselgeek; May 10, 2012, 12:59 PM.www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!
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Originally posted by TC View PostI wouldn't have even posted it if I didn't care........www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!
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I don't have a dog in this fight, really. But, what I see here are a couple of recognized "professional" aftermarket product/service providers in a very "unprofessional" pissing contest. Quite frankly, I would have thought better of both participants than to behave in such fashion in a public forum.
I think I'll just leave it at that.
RonIt's really no different than trying to glue them back on after she has her way.
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Originally posted by dieselgeek View PostSo it was YOU who was overly concerned that no other tuners see your calibration on an engine that you claim you never really spent time tuning? It sure seems like you felt you had something to protect. Yet everywhere else you state that this engine "never really got the attention it deserved" and "AEM wasn't represented" Major confusion on my end - which is it, the AEM was running a "startup calibration" or was it running a tune that you demanded not be shown to other tuners? It's either one or the other.
Devin, all I can really suggest from this point forward to help keep yourself from getting into these "unknown shootout" situations is simply this: Treat EVERY tuning opportunity as though it's your own personal shootout. Realize that having YOUR system on ANY engine *IS YOUR REPRESENTATION* - don't make excuses for why you "could have" done better on the tune. Ray Barton Racing is one of the top racing engine builders in the country, I would NEVER show up there without being 100% prepared (i.e., my EMS wouldn't cause me a day of downtime because it was configured for a 4-cyl Honda by mistake). Whenever I set foot in anyone's garage or dyno shop, I treat it as a golden opportunity to let my products and efforts shine. Why bother making a trip to tune someone's engine if you're only later going to complain that "I didn't really work hard at it" or "we never were notified of a shootout" - sometimes, you don't know ahead of time that your work will be compared to others. Life's a shootout. Arrive prepared.
Have a better day,
-Scott
Like I said before, if you decide to have a shootout again, please have the respect this time to invite representatives from the other companies involved so it's actually a shootout.
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Originally posted by AEM Devin View PostLike I said before, if you decide to have a shootout again, please have the respect this time to invite representatives from the other companies involved so it's actually a shootout.www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!
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Originally posted by dieselgeek View PostAll I did was show up and do what was requested of me - tune for max power.
My job was to make sure Ray Barton Racing got up and running on the AEM system and to see they had a smooth transition (brand new users) and out to the race track with their customers. There was no "tune for max power" dyno session or shootout. They got the engine in the car quickly and the rest is history. End of story. If a guy wants to make up some wicked wiz bang tuner calibrator title because I successfully supported someone
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Originally posted by AEM Devin View PostIt's called respect for customers Scott and something David held with a high level of integrety. "My" is not the correct wording here... it's the customer's property.
Like I said before, if you decide to have a shootout again, please have the respect this time to invite representatives from the other companies involved so it's actually a shootout.
It sound like your lacking in a reason why this has happend and just throwing the best Dart you have at Scott and hoping it sticks. You missed and come off cheap and cheesy but I am used to seeing that from just a sales guy. Cough CoughLast edited by JeffMcKC; May 10, 2012, 02:02 PM.2007 SBN/A Drag Week Winner & First only SBN/A Car in the 9's Till 2012
First to run in the .90s .80s and .70's in SBN/A
2012 SSBN/A Drag Week Winner First in the 9.60's/ 9.67 @ 139 1.42 60'
2013 SSBN/A Drag Week, Lets quit sand bagging, and let it rip!
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