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I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

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  • I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

    Received my version of a MS3 recently, along with a pair of ignition driverboxes, and boxes for the low impedance propane injectors.

    I think I'll better take up a knitting-course pretty soon...
    Attached Files
    Last edited by BigBlockMopar; July 3rd, 2012, 12:48 AM.
    www.BigBlockMopar.com

  • #2

    Re: I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

    with all those labels, I'm not sure hooking up my stereo and TV isn't harder!

    Are you still thinking about lpg?
    Flying south, with a flock of bird dogs.

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    • #3

      Re: I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

      I'm not thinking about it, I'm sure about it :o) Got the propane injector stuff aswell. See pics below.
      Gasoline is double the price is propane overhere. You would be a thief of your own wallet if you decide to drive on gasoline.

      Sorting out all the wiring doesn't scare me. It's more the amount of wires that will eat of lot of time getting it connected properly and neatly mounted. This is an area where I (knowing myself) tend to get hasty and perhaps cut corners, and when it comes to sensitive electronics, this is not the place to do that.

      I plan on installing the MS on the Hemi while it's still on a teststand, so I can get it to idle and free-rev properly. Eventually it will all need to be installed in my daily heap, which is quite an enterprise in it's own right because of fitment. So I would like to get the motor as usable as possible before this happens so I can keep the car's downtime also as low as possible.




      Last edited by BigBlockMopar; June 21st, 2012, 05:04 AM.
      www.BigBlockMopar.com

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      • #4

        Re: I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

        Nice! You can go pretty nuts with compression on LPG? That should be a neat setup. More information on the injectors? Most of the stuff I've seen here looks like a bbq regulator on a carb intake manifold plate.
        Last edited by Beagle; June 21st, 2012, 05:12 AM.
        Flying south, with a flock of bird dogs.

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        • #5

          Re: I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

          Vapour 'pull' fuelsystems are the most common on older cars. I have a fairly simple 2-stage vaporiser and a propane/air-mixer on top of the carb on my daily now.

          With propane injection you will use a single stage vaporiser and seperate injectors for each cylinder.
          The injectors come in various sizes. But the ones I have are from 'Magic' and can be sized up if needed with different nozzles to give them more flow. Valtek is a well known (but also cheap) name aswell. Top of the line stuff is from Prins/Keihin. But at $60-80 per injector, that's too steep for me.

          Propane has about 110 octane, so it can withstand quite some compression. If easily possible I will try to up the CR in the 5.7 from it's stock 9.6:1 to around 10.5 or 11:1 perhaps.
          www.BigBlockMopar.com

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          • #6

            Re: I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

            This is an area where I (knowing myself) tend to get hasty and perhaps cut corners, and when it comes to sensitive electronics, this is not the place to do that.
            You should see my wiring setup. It makes people like DieselGeek cry If you have noise on a particular sensor it's easy to see with the Megasquirt datalogs, so say the TPS is noisy, then just look at the TPS wires, and leave everything else alone. If it's the tach wire, then do like wise. If the whole thing is noisy, start looking at external sources like bad plug wires, broke solder joints inside the alternator (I only mention that one because it was a nightmare to find that source of electrical noise in my Thunderbird!), etc. On old cars though, there really are only two points for serious noise, the charging system and the ignition system, and IMO the MegaSquirt is very forgiving with the VR pot adjusters and the software filtering. My Thunderbird was an electrical nightmare, and the Skylark has been a walk in the park.
            Escaped on a technicality.

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            • #7

              Re: I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

              Starting off with MS3 will be intimidating, no doubt. But don't fear, plenty of us here can help. Propane injection is a walk in the park (just used propane injectors for Oxygen injection on a project a few weeks ago).

              Make sure we have a chat about power and ground wiring before you get started, can save you a lot of debug time.
              www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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              • #8

                Re: I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

                Yeah, don't do like I did and lump all my grounds together. When all my sensors were noisy, but the tach was clean, I was scratching my head because I didn't know which sensor was teh problem, d'oh! Turned out on that one I followed the LC-1 wiring directions and connected the sensor heater ground to the group of sensor grounds. Once I gave the O2 sensor heater it's own ground location away from everything else the system was pretty electrically quiet.
                Escaped on a technicality.

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                • #9

                  Re: I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

                  I noticed a number of ground wires coming out the MS-box connector, so that (and reading up on the MSExtra-forum about issues other folks have) told me grounding would need to done in a proper way or issues might come up.
                  DG, I will drop you a line when I start putting things together.

                  I still need to build up the 5.7 Hemi, which is still partly disassembled since I bought it.
                  I'm currently awaiting a cylinder head to arrive from the US and I'll need to locate a suitable cable-operated throttlebody for the motor so I can hook up the kickdown linkage from the A518 overdrive transmission I will use behind this motor.

                  At the moment I'm still not sure how I will be starting up the Hemi when it's on the teststand... Either first on gasoline (to see how the engine runs), or go straight to have it running on propane.
                  I'd rather have it running on propane rightaway, since that's what it will see when installed in the car. Eventhough I've heard about starting issues with injected propane as the main and single motorfuel. (injectors freezing because of the lack of engine heat and such).
                  This is the reason why the factory has LPG converted cars start on gasoline first and switch over to LPG when the motor has reached a certain temperature.

                  Personally I would like to try and see if I can getting usable results with an electric injector-rail heater or something like that.
                  I don't really want to install a highpressure gasoline pump and fueltank again, just for those 5 minutes of running time everyday.
                  www.BigBlockMopar.com

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                  • #10

                    Re: I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

                    Ive got reasonably priced 92mm and 96mm Hemi cable pull TBs available if you are interested...No such animals exist in nature, just F&B and BBK (80mm) for the aftermarket. Super Bangshift discount available...Click image for larger version

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                    www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                    Bruce K Bridges

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                    • #11

                      Re: I haven't heard people say EFI could be 'intimidating'...

                      While that TB looks very nice and interesting, I think with all those cnc machined surfaces it will be out of the range I would be looking to spend for a single valve throttle-unit.

                      I'm still somewhat recuperating from that expensive box of electronics and wires

                      Nonetheless you have a PM.
                      www.BigBlockMopar.com

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