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  • EFI warm up tuning

    Does anyone have a nice method for setting up Map vs. coolant and Map vs air temp modifier tables on a new tune to facilitate warm-up without waiting for the actual environmental conditions to occur? Given that you know the operating A/Fs at fully warmed up conditions of course...SanDiego is a great place to drive year round, but a lousy place to tune for freezing temps. Even A/F targets for chilly weather and a cold motor would help. My Barracuda needed tweaking on a cold LasVegas morning, and it wasnt even that cold (but colder the San Diego by a lot).
    BKB
    www.FBthrottlebodies.com
    Bruce K Bridges

  • #2

    Re: EFI warm up tuning

    Silence...
    talking to myself: The Map table gets addtl fuel (12% in the barracudas case) at idle at 50 deg F coolant temp and then it gets pulled out from there... It still runs a bit lean during warm up which I live with to reduce the smell...I still am guessing on the air inlet table compensations though. (less fuel cold, more fuel hot) But If I need to tune and run, Im never sure if this will work. Not looking for any "secrets" just some advice...
    BKB
    www.FBthrottlebodies.com
    Bruce K Bridges

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    • #3

      Re: EFI warm up tuning

      I have the same issue you living up the road in CDM. Our settings on mine for the EMS-Pro ramp from zero add at 156 CLt slowly rising to 120% at 20* in the after start warm enrichment warm up table. Cranking pulse widths are flat at 2.2 from 100* on up with [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] These are 1000/cc or 96lb injectors on a 588"

      I think the coldest ambient I have ever started it in is 40 the hottest 115. I just haven't had to fiddle with it much and we aren't using a bunch of the baro correction and other tools that are there.
      Drag Week 2006 & 2012 - Winner Street Race Big Block Naturally Aspirated - R/U 2007 Broke DW '05 and Drag Weekend '15 Coincidence?

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      • #4

        Re: EFI warm up tuning

        alot of it is by nature, may not have to be as dynamical as you may have a desire to adjust.

        if cold is a problem, and engine runs nice..
        try a hotter ignition..

        density is freakish for fuel. maine way below zero can crack skin, the summer is an expander. In july adding 3 gallons ends up as 5 on the gauge. A full return that keeps busy is a big helper as well .no battles making fuel change, shred it through a constant seeping round trip journey.

        that is only mistakes I see on the one line hookups..they don't care at all for simple things needed in extremes.

        injectors are like jets lectrified. they should get over these anomolies very very easy. odors at all is ignition if even attempted to be setup somewhat normal for stoich.
        Previously boxer3main
        the death rate and fairy tales cannot kill the nature left behind.

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        • #5

          Re: EFI warm up tuning

          Bill,
          Thanks for the reply! Cardiff and Corona del Mar are pretty similar weather wise. Im running 24# injectors in a 318cuin motor, but our numbers/techniques are pretty close re: warm up enrichment, cool! Ive got BS3 running the 318 so the software is a bit different re: cranking, but the 318 seems to be pw sensitive over 100deg ambient (AIT sensor is in the manifold?) My 440 doesnt seem to have the finicky warm up issues the 318 has, but Ive fiddled them both into "making it down the road cold" over time. The 440 has seen a wider range of ambient temps with me at the Laptop, so maybe thats the reason. Need a big "drive in" refrigerator to get things done right it seems.
          BKB
          www.FBthrottlebodies.com
          Bruce K Bridges

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: EFI warm up tuning

            alot of it is by nature, may not have to be as dynamical as you may have a desire to adjust.

            if cold is a problem, and engine runs nice..
            try a hotter ignition..

            density is freakish for fuel. maine way below zero can crack skin, the summer is an expander. In july adding 3 gallons ends up as 5 on the gauge. A full return that keeps busy is a big helper as well .no battles making fuel change, shred it through a constant seeping round trip journey.

            that is only mistakes I see on the one line hookups..they don't care at all for simple things needed in extremes.

            injectors are like jets lectrified. they should get over these anomolies very very easy. odors at all is ignition if even attempted to be setup somewhat normal for stoich.
            Or maybe take a drive to Maine in the winter! Right now anything in my tables under 40 deg F ambient is guesswork!
            www.FBthrottlebodies.com
            Bruce K Bridges

            Comment


            • #7

              Re: EFI warm up tuning

              I use a Haltech. I found that the first priming shot from the injector was very important for cold start. My understanding is that you need to get enough wall wetting done on the runners and port so that the passing air can wick the proper amount. Then, of course, you need to provide enough fuel to compensate for the denser, colder air.

              You'd be surprised how many engines go "pop" at the 25 hours of Thunderhill. Most of the engines have never experienced that cold, dense air and the tuners haven't accounted for 20* and lower weather conditions.
              I'm still learning

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              • #8

                Re: EFI warm up tuning

                I'm on vacation until Tuesday and on my phone so no long post from me. If you can wait til Tuesday I'll line out my method.
                Escaped on a technicality.

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                • #9

                  Re: EFI warm up tuning

                  Randall,
                  Ive been driving both cars for the past 6 years... I can definitely wait till next week
                  Bob,
                  I can see where racing in cold temps without a empirically populated table could lead to unexpected results!
                  BKB
                  www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                  Bruce K Bridges

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: EFI warm up tuning

                    I'm likely over generalizing but big cubic inch big cam motors are so bad normally that I may be more accepting of bad behavior than I should be, but if it's starts idles and runs reasonably well and predictably, I tend to stop there and focus on the WOT tuning.

                    The earlier 582 was pretty well dialed for street tractability with single 2200 TB, the dual TB's have been more interesting due to the tip in issues. I also get to cheat with the high stall converter. Back when the stick was in it I could stil cheat because of the 4.11's and the 6 speed. I think Randall has as good a handle as anyone I actually know on more street able combinations.

                    I find I need good logs to see what happened under unusual circumstances because I just don't put that much mileage on the car in adverse conditions, or at all really. 5000 miles a year is about tops for me.
                    Drag Week 2006 & 2012 - Winner Street Race Big Block Naturally Aspirated - R/U 2007 Broke DW '05 and Drag Weekend '15 Coincidence?

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: EFI warm up tuning

                      BTW the 'Geek is coming in next Thursday for the swap to to the MS3X so I'd love to see what you've come up with for the 3X.
                      Drag Week 2006 & 2012 - Winner Street Race Big Block Naturally Aspirated - R/U 2007 Broke DW '05 and Drag Weekend '15 Coincidence?

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Re: EFI warm up tuning

                        BKB, does the IAT in the manifold make it think it's warmer than it is? I moved mine out into the inlet air pipe (other side of the TB) a few years back but it didn't seem to make much difference. My testing was in summer though - the poor engines here never actually cool down. It's 77* here now for instance.
                        Last edited by Beagle; July 14th, 2012, 03:09 AM.
                        Flying south, with a flock of bird dogs.

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                        • #13

                          Re: EFI warm up tuning

                          Beagle,
                          My intake is aluminum, but there is a lot of heat soak. Once the motor is started, it seems all the same temp wise. Ive put it in the air cleaner base as well, but Its a PIA when people ask me to remove the air cleaner to see the jewlery. Per Bills post, the 440 has a bigger cam and looser converter (well it did until last week when the converter puked) so I may be cutting it some slack as well. Beagle, What did you do to populate the air temp correction tables in temps youve never seen?
                          BKB
                          www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                          Bruce K Bridges

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: EFI warm up tuning

                            I have the IAT in between the the two TB's an inch or two from the venturi's. I keep the wires and weatherpak long for the base so I can work on it without disconnecting the sensor. I worried about manifold heat soak so that's one of the reason's it's up on the base. The base is aluminum sheet stock we fabricated and gets warm too.

                            We guessed on out of range baro/IAT/CLT corrections on the low temp side two motor iterations ago and have yet to experience them so we left it alone. On the other hand we've had lots of hot weather experience. I'm not familiar with the BS3 interface so I'm not sure what directly translates.
                            Drag Week 2006 & 2012 - Winner Street Race Big Block Naturally Aspirated - R/U 2007 Broke DW '05 and Drag Weekend '15 Coincidence?

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: EFI warm up tuning

                              In megasquirt world, we don't adjust fuel enrichment based on IAT. On the BigStuff3, similar to Megasquirt, the computer is using "Ideal Gas Law" calculations so there should really not even be a table that allows you to adjust enrichment per MAT (manifold absolute temp, aka Intake Air temp), but strangely there is.

                              There was an old white paper circulating by GM that shows what they use for warmup enrichments, and it's all based on CLT - not on MAT. Some GM systems didn't even have a MA/IAT sensor...!

                              The BigStuff has this habit of including "some enrichment" in ALL their tables. What I do is zero out the enrichments on both the MAP-AE and MAT enrichment tables. I use only TPS movement for AE (accel enrichment) on the BS3 (and it's siblings). I find it a lot easier to tune this way. So what you end up with is, adjustments in the cranking fuel (BS3 and megasquirt work the same way, they inject fuel in ALL cylinders every trigger event, until the engine is above the crank-to-run RPM). So you end up with a simple table based on CLT, just like megasquirt - it sets the pulsewidth during cranking.

                              As soon as the engine starts, it's on the fuel map plus any temp-based enrichments, just like MS. I only use CLT temps for enrichments, there's a table in both MS and BS3 for this.
                              www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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