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Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

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  • Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

    After getting tips on welding my headers and basically ignoring them (but still truely appreciating them ) I am asking for more advice. I am building the intake hardware to port inject a twin engine Harley but am somewhat clueless re: driving the injection system. Currently both motors are mechanically connected but controlled independently re: spark and fuel via carbs and electronic ignitions running on crank triggers. The builder wants to keep the independent tuning re: ignition, but we will be running a single plenum/ single TB inlet. Any ideas re: ECU and driver arrangements? Its mainly a WOT type ride.
    BKB
    Attached Files
    www.FBthrottlebodies.com
    Bruce K Bridges

  • #2

    Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

    Dude...... I need to meet this guy.

    Not because I can help with the EFI but because I just got to see what he carries his balls around on. Geesh that's a bad ass scooter. Is he going to run on the lakebed or at Bonneville?
    Glad I don't do bike tech....
    There are very few people in this world who's opinion I value, you are not one of them.

    300 in 1999

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

      Dynoroom,
      I think you know him/of him already. Mr Moreland? Hes trying to get it out for the opening meet at ElMirage in May. He took the fairings off to change classes this year. Im such a nube at this stuff that I dont know which class hes going to run or has run. I think he was the points champ with Noonan in 2007 in some Hyabusa powered rig? Im excited to be able to help. There wil be some technical challenges to overcome.
      BKB
      www.FBthrottlebodies.com
      Bruce K Bridges

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley


        It was suggested to run bank to bank for simplicity as a 4 cylinder even thought the motors are clocked "off stroke". Also, to run open loop until ,RPM wise, the exhaust reversion isnt affecting the O2 readings and tune with a longer exh pipe. Tuning wise Im hoping Im not doing it as the idle has to be 1700rpm or damage may ensue.
        www.FBthrottlebodies.com
        Bruce K Bridges

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley


          It was suggested to run bank to bank for simplicity as a 4 cylinder even thought the motors are clocked "off stroke". Also, to run open loop until ,RPM wise, the exhaust reversion isnt affecting the O2 readings and tune with a longer exh pipe. Tuning wise Im hoping Im not doing it as the idle has to be 1700rpm or damage may ensue.
          The engines will have different VEs, I would prefer to run them independently for both spark and fuel. Crank trigger ignition with a missing tooth and an EFI system that'll support the odd Harley firing arrangement. I have done a few v-twins now and I prefer the Microsquirt running the MS2-Extra firmware... what other systems out there can drive dual coil ignition with the Harley firing order? I know there aren't many mainstream EFI systems out there that'll support this unless you rig up a distributor, and even then it's going to have to support oddfire ignition.

          Let me know if you want some help with it, weird applications are fun.
          www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

            In the past I've worked with Doug Lofgren on motorcycle efi, he has done everything, but has most of his experience with V-twins, Ducati & HD. He's been doing efi tuning for nearly 20 years now. He may have some info for you or some contact info on some tuners in your area. Click this and get his email from there.
            http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/

            Technical info here, http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/report.htm
            Last edited by mike343sharpstick; March 18th, 2013, 05:46 PM.

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            • #7

              Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

              DG and MSS,
              HELP? YES!
              I need to get some MS2 schooling. The owner does a lot of Harley tuning, but is leary of running the spark as the timing seems to be a very big concern. Something about ripping the gear box in half...He would like to start with just fuel and get into more as the scene "develops". I think I can relate as I wouldnt put my butt near that thing. BUT... I completely agree re: mapping the motors individually. DG this is a "labor of love" for me at this point, so the glory is in holding the record after going "electronic".
              Your help would be insanely appreciated to get this to the lakebed in May.
              The owner/builder has a full HD shop with dyno in Socal.
              Im going to start the hardware build next week.
              BKB
              www.FBthrottlebodies.com
              Bruce K Bridges

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

                What kind of ignition does he have on it now? Does he have a tachometer drive source that we can use for a tach input signal to his ECU?

                If you have the option, I'd suggest installing 36-1 wheels on each crank and use a Ford Mustang CKP sensor... even if not running ignition with the ECU for now.
                www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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                • #9

                  Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

                  DG,
                  I think hes running stock Harley ignitions (electronic), one for each motor. Im heading over to the shop early next week to start making measurements so I will try and get as much info then as possible. I cant do anything this week due to work issues.
                  Hardware wise the design is pretty simple.
                  BKB
                  www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                  Bruce K Bridges

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

                    I finally got to the CFD on the super simple manifold design for the LSR Harley. Not sure Im understanding the output yet, but it does look like 2.2psi ram pressure is available to the motors at full tilt and 250mph...The throttlebody goes where the heavy orange traces are.
                    BKB
                    Attached Files
                    www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                    Bruce K Bridges

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

                      After a bit of discussion wit "the man" I found my original "Vacuum cleaner" design was not optimal to say the least. I guess I wanted it to work because it would be easy to make. The new design should be a far shot better at getting the air into the motors and a much bigger fabrication challenge.
                      Attached Files
                      www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                      Bruce K Bridges

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

                        oxygen bottle?
                        Flying south, with a flock of bird dogs.

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

                          O2 bottle might be a bit heavy and the pic doesnt show it well but the whole thing is pretty ellipsoidal. Im thinking a long balloon and papermache to make a fiberglass shell for a silicone mold for the carbon fiber final piece... much tougher than welding tubing together. The other thought are 2 english wheeled halves (.063 aluminum sheet) welded together... It should be easier that way and cheaper too! Not sure what to do fab wise yet.
                          www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                          Bruce K Bridges

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                          • #14

                            Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

                            hollow out a bowling pin... ? hahaha. I like the CF idea.
                            Flying south, with a flock of bird dogs.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Fuel Injecting LSR Harley

                              The manifold is under way as well as the ram scoop... the 23" spacing between intake ports has made using the "normal" intake plenum equations impossible (Vizard et al) Soo... We are going to wing it. I dug up an old MEFI system from GM. Since the MEFI was designed to run marine applications, its got a dual motor control scheme locked away in it. We busted it loose from the ECU we have and are trying to make it work. We are hoping to get that going for bank to bank on each motor (no spark control yet) for the opening weekend at El Mirage. The odd fire on the HD as well as the strange cylinder filling issues give me the willies re: reversion... 60lb EV6 style injectors running at 65psi should give us a decent shot at 500hp. We will probably only be able to dyno the rear motor before the first run. Should be interesting.
                              BKB
                              www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                              Bruce K Bridges

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