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How much tuning really?

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  • #16

    Re: How much tuning really?

    MAf has nothing to do with the "amount of boost" - it has a maximum measurable airflow regardless of the PSI of the incoming air charge. The "amount of boost" that TC is confused about, is how much MAP sensor you have available for tables that use MAP (manifold absolute pressure) as an axis for referencing load. So your spark table might be limited to 3 bars, but that's not really a limiting factor to your maximum allowable boost.

    You can get MAF configurations nowadays to support relaly high HP - no problem there.
    Last edited by dieselgeek; March 24th, 2013, 09:13 PM.
    www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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    • #17

      Re: How much tuning really?

      So it is possible to run the factory ecm, which uses a MAF, as speed density
      using HPT? I was under the impression one would have to work within the
      confines of the factory system with HPT. I understand that the standalones
      allow that kind of customization but you are kind of starting with a blank slate.

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      • #18

        Re: How much tuning really?

        So it is possible to run the factory ecm, which uses a MAF, as speed density
        using HPT?
        Yes, HPT allows the use of Speed Density with the stock ECM..... Here is a screen shot off my laptop of the different Operating Systems(OS) that HPT has that you can install......

        Realize that HPT doesn't really use the Stock software for the ECM, it replaces it with it's own version, you can also install Real Time Tuning, so you can make adjustments on the fly, which is something the Stock Programming didn't come with either....



        Also realize even though DG is very informative about EFI tuning, he is the first to admit he doesn't work with stock ECM's, and that he doesn't use HPT, though if your looking for advise on a MegaSquirt he's the man to talk to.....
        Last edited by TC; March 25th, 2013, 12:23 PM.

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        • #19

          Re: How much tuning really?

          So the HPT works kind of like a firmware on the oem hardware? Am I understanding
          that correctly? I guess I kind of viewed HPT as more of an advanced
          hand held tuner like a hypertech/diablosport. I am the first to admit I don't
          understand a lot about HPT, that is why I started this thread. I have a better
          idea what a standalone is cabable of although I have no experience using one.

          I guess the biggest advantage to HPT is that is doesn't require as much
          set up time to get to the tuning due to the fact that the system as a
          whole is oem.

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          • #20

            Re: How much tuning really?

            So the HPT works kind of like a firmware on the oem hardware? Am I understanding
            that correctly? I guess I kind of viewed HPT as more of an advanced
            hand held tuner like a hypertech/diablosport. I am the first to admit I don't
            understand a lot about HPT, that is why I started this thread. I have a better
            idea what a standalone is cabable of although I have no experience using one.

            I guess the biggest advantage to HPT is that is doesn't require as much
            set up time to get to the tuning due to the fact that the system as a
            whole is oem.
            Ya, I'm not an expert in anyway on how they program the ECM's, I just have HPT and it works for what I need to do.... I'm in the process of swapping the heads and cam on the white Camaro in my sig, though the Tuning School manuals cover the tuning for head and cam swaps I'm going to have a well known local Tuner tune it for me.... To me it's a win win situation, his fee is very reasonable, he will leave the tune unlocked so I can improve upon it, and I won't waste my money on dyno time tuning the car myself, and he'll explain to me what he's doing so I'll be more comfortable in the future making changes on my own.... Basically he'll give me a baseline to where I can improve upon....

            And as for HPT being like a hand held, it's not like that at all, it's a computer program that runs on a laptop(I use a netbook) with an interface cable that plugs into the USB port on the laptop and the other end plugs into the OBD II diagnostic port under the dash.......... It also allows transmission tuning along with the ability to turn off DTC codes, like for the rear O2 sensors, EGR and the Air System, if you choose to delete those systems.............

            And IMO if you can use the factory EFI system your way ahead of the game since the ECM is matched to he drivetrain that you install, so it makes engine swaps almost plug and play......
            Last edited by TC; March 25th, 2013, 06:03 PM.

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            • #21

              Re: How much tuning really?

              Ahem. Refer to my post above about where you get advice Sam, guys like Alex can really steer you down the wrong path as they pretend to know this stuff.

              HPT will let you easily run Speed Density by disabling the MAF in the software. Most GM MAFs have a built in air temp sensor so if you plan on removing it you need to wire one up, it's cheap (less than $20) and two wires to re attach.

              In fact, the proper way to tune HPT is to first tune speed density so your VE tables, the basis of all fuel maps, are correct. Then the next step up is to tune for MAF usage (if you don't mind a little power loss with the airflow restriction, it's minor), and let the computer get back to closed loop self tuning. The car will run very nice if you go through all of this.

              Also, one thing I *do* agree with Alex is using the Tuning School's instructions - I used them to get up to speed on the LS's I've tuned in the past month with HPT (lots of them, I tune for an LS crate engine manufacturer now). It's expensive though, you might be able to get by using online tutorials as well, there is lots of help and good reading at the HPT forum. The downer to HPT is that the software is a little bit unorganized and it's more complicated to TUNE than something like Megasquirt. HPT does NOT "replace" the software on the GM ECU, all it does is load a simple little module that allows "sorta realtime tuning" but this is not nearly as easy as the realtime tuning on any standalone - consider Holley HP or Dominator, I've used them and love them! - tuning is faster on the standalone and the standalone, whichever you choose, will have more features down the road.

              You also won't be tampering with an EPA-certified ECU which, on a street car, is a hefty offense - FYI. The feds have been cracking down on OEM retuners in the diesel world and the gasser engines can't be far behind.

              In reality, the best choice is probably to go with whatever your friends or local tuners are most comfortable with, doing EFI should almost require "getting help from a friend" - that way you won't end up giving up when you run into something you don't understand.

              I can help you with either as I am pretty well up to speed on every standalone out there, plus HPT now.
              Last edited by dieselgeek; March 26th, 2013, 08:52 PM.
              www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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              • #22

                Re: How much tuning really?

                Thank you for the confirmation. I read/listen to all replies I just give some more weight than others.
                I know in the end it is up to me to do the research and find which method would work the best for
                me. I said it before that I am not ready to do this now but it is something that I would love to
                try but I know my limitations and don't want to get in so far over my head that I just give up.
                I work only about 5 mi from DIY autotune and live just a little farther so that makes MS an
                attractive option. I have stopped by there and they seem very eager to help (even when I
                haven't spent any money with them). I started this thread for an education, thanks again
                for the input. Amazing that without the web this exchange of information would be almost
                impossible.

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                • #23

                  Re: How much tuning really?

                  MS is a remarkably well documented and supported system that has more users than any of the commercial systems. With Scott's help I went from EFI noob to halfway competent user. Scott also had three guys get jackets at Drag Week last year, never mind records at Bonneville and a runnerUp at Engine Masters. If you go that route you won't regret it. BTW I got my fully assembled MS3X, harness and al kinds of supporting stuff from DIY Autotune, great guys who also are here on BS a lot. You won't find a better place to get an EFI education.
                  Drag Week 2006 & 2012 - Winner Street Race Big Block Naturally Aspirated - R/U 2007 Broke DW '05 and Drag Weekend '15 Coincidence?

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                  • #24

                    Re: How much tuning really?

                    Thank you for the confirmation. I read/listen to all replies I just give some more weight than others.
                    I know in the end it is up to me to do the research and find which method would work the best for
                    me. I said it before that I am not ready to do this now but it is something that I would love to
                    try but I know my limitations and don't want to get in so far over my head that I just give up.
                    I work only about 5 mi from DIY autotune and live just a little farther so that makes MS an
                    attractive option. I have stopped by there and they seem very eager to help (even when I
                    haven't spent any money with them). I started this thread for an education, thanks again
                    for the input. Amazing that without the web this exchange of information would be almost
                    impossible.
                    One more thing HPT has their own forum, it might be more beneficial to you to go to that forum and ask some of the question you've asked here and see what they have to say.....

                    Comment


                    • #25

                      Re: How much tuning really?


                      In fact, the proper way to tune HPT is to first tune speed density so your VE tables, the basis of all fuel maps, are correct. Then the next step up is to tune for MAF usage (if you don't mind a little power loss with the airflow restriction, it's minor), and let the computer get back to closed loop self tuning. The car will run very nice if you go through all of this.
                      Other than disabling the MAF what else do you need to do before you can adjust the VE table??......

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                      • #26

                        Re: How much tuning really?

                        Other than disabling the MAF what else do you need to do before you can adjust the VE table??......
                        Read the instructions.
                        www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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                        • #27

                          Re: How much tuning really?

                          I thought you did??...

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                          • #28

                            Re: How much tuning really?

                            Yep, sure did. Every crate LS that comes with a GM ECU from Blueprint uses a calibration I developed in HPT. You should try using it sometime, that way you can share advice that may have some value instead of what you currently share.
                            www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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                            • #29

                              Re: How much tuning really?

                              Yep, sure did. Every crate LS that comes with a GM ECU from Blueprint uses a calibration I developed in HPT. You should try using it sometime, that way you can share advice that may have some value instead of what you currently share.
                              I have used it, in fact the manual is sitting right here in front of me.... See the thing is I don't think you bought the manual and at that what manual did you buy if you did buy it, that is why I asked what you need to do before adjusting the VE tables, come on man it's only 6 things, surely you can name them.....
                              Last edited by TC; March 28th, 2013, 12:54 AM.

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                              • #30

                                Re: How much tuning really?

                                Lol. Anyone else here besides Alex with more questions? I don't mind answering questions from legitimate car guys.
                                www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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