Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

    I searched my BS3 manual for info on tuning to E85 and could not find it. Anyone know what I need to change in the BS3 to support E85?

    I looked for a Stoich setting but did not find it.

    Thanks in advance!

    John

  • #2

    Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

    Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

    I don't think there's one particular setting you change for e85 on the BS3. What I would do is, save off your old map and put it in a safe place.

    Then highlight the entire VE table, and increase it by about 30%. (this is if you aren't changing injectors, fuel pressure, etc.).

    Then I'd go into the cranking pulse table and do the exact same thing (increase about 30%).


    Then see how it runs. you will still need dyno tuning to make sure everything is OK, also make sure you're looking at Lambda and not AFR, otherwise know what AFR's your gasoline-tuned wideband will report at proper e85 mixtures!

    let us know how it goes!

    -scott
    www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

      Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

      Scott, I was just going to PM you figuring you might know but figured others would be curious on what needs to change.

      When I looked at my Air/Fuel Ratio table and remembered that the bottom third was set to 14.7 or 14.0, I thought that might reference the stoich for the current fuel being used. But then I remembered from my MAF tuning that the Ford PCM actually had a Fuel Stoich parameter field in there. I've never played with Speed Density before the BS3 and was not sure of the relationship between the AFR table and the VE table. let's see if I understand...

      Because the stoich of E85 is around 9.8 (~30% less than gasoline), I would want to target my Wideband O2 to also be ~30% lower, correct? (this is the AFR table in BS3) I'm running the BS3 in Closed-Loop at all times so it can adjust fuel even at WOT.

      Looking at my VE table, there are currently no cells that go above 100%, but some are pretty high. Multiplying all of them by ~30% would put some over. In Speed Density, is this acceptable?

      And, when I'm finished, will my AutoMeter WideBand then read ~30% lower than when running gasoline? Do Widebands support running E85 correctly? (see, there goes my brain in catch-22 mode again!)
      (after looking up my manual on my Autometer gauge, I see it allows me to set stoich since it is only looking at lambda. It does the math for me so I can pretend it is gasoline and get a good reading.)

      Sounds more like PeeWee's Big Adventure! I will keep you posted as to what I find!

      john

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

        Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

        I would recommend disabling closed loop corrections for starters, get it idling and drivable open loop so that you know you're "close" - the BS3 has a lot of delay in it's closed loop corrections, if it's having to correct 10% or more (my opinion) then you end up with certain areas that are too rich.lean while it slowly moves into correction. No doubt you have a nicely tuned VE table on gasoline right now, so the corrections are minimal...


        I'd experiment with startup and idle first, open loop, the 9.8 figure is an Air-Fuel number but that sounds correct, so you'd end up scaling down all your target AFRs once you know the VE table is ballpark accurate.

        Cranking and warmup can be a trick on e85. In my experience it's not necessarly "just add 30%" but then again, figuring out what's right, is half the fun of EFI! :-)



        www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

          Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

          BTW, looks like Kyle cleaned up the 1320 server and your avatar has gone walkabout!

          :D

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

            Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

            FWIW while 30% is probably a very good starting point I think you'll wind up richer than that at WOT and leaner than that at cruise. If you have a wide band try .78 Lambda for best WOT power and 1.05 Lambda for best economy. Depending on the cam and load at freeway cruise you might even be able to go leaner than 1.05 -- E85 have a very good lean burn tolerance.

            Not sure how to adjust for that with them thar modern lectronics of yers since I tune my carb with drill bits LOL

            Comment


            • #7

              Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

              Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

              Not sure how to adjust for that with them thar modern lectronics of yers since I tune my carb with drill bits LOL

              :D I needed some humor today. thanks Eric!
              www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                It is all becoming clear as mud! (lol!)

                I need to get used to using Lambda, that much is clear.

                Ok, back to Speed Density 101...

                Is my VE Table the same as the Base Fuel table for MAF systems? IE: If I want to add or subtract fuel for a given RPM/Load, I adjust this table?

                I'm learning... Really!

                :D

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                  Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                  Its easy Eric just drill the ECU
                  2007 SBN/A Drag Week Winner & First only SBN/A Car in the 9's Till 2012
                  First to run in the .90s .80s and .70's in SBN/A
                  2012 SSBN/A Drag Week Winner First in the 9.60's/ 9.67 @ 139 1.42 60'
                  2013 SSBN/A Drag Week, Lets quit sand bagging, and let it rip!

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                    Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                    It is all becoming clear as mud! (lol!)

                    I need to get used to using Lambda, that much is clear.

                    Ok, back to Speed Density 101...

                    Is my VE Table the same as the Base Fuel table for MAF systems? IE: If I want to add or subtract fuel for a given RPM/Load, I adjust this table?

                    I'm learning... Really!

                    :D

                    Check your PM. If you can get me your calibration file before my staff meeting, I'll double check that there's not an easier way to do this. I am thinking there's a scalar or global variable in the BS3 that lets you compensate for fuel type without changing your VE table.
                    www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                      Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                      That's on the laptop at home. No hurry. I'll get that sent to you tonight.

                      I never thought to look at the BS3 file directly either, but it will be on it's way later today.

                      Cheers!

                      John

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                        Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                        Go into the config under hardware and change the fuel type from gasoline to ethanol.
                        If you have the time to wait the inline sensor for adjusting the mixture on your mix of fuel is coming so you can run both at will, but rolling over the turbo truck multiple times has John laid up.

                        Kurt

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                          Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                          Go into the config under hardware and change the fuel type from gasoline to ethanol.
                          If you have the time to wait the inline sensor for adjusting the mixture on your mix of fuel is coming so you can run both at will, but rolling over the turbo truck multiple times has John laid up.

                          Kurt

                          What's the deal with John rolling a truck?!? I wondered what was up when no one answered the tech support line this week! story? link?
                          www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                            Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                            I don't think there is a online link. One of his friends was driving his turbo truck, he was in the passenger seat. The driver swerved to miss dear in the road and the truck started rolling down the side of the road. Looks like it went two revolutions for sure, maybe three. John was belted in, but the cab crushed in exposing his right shoulder and arm. He has road rash on the shoulder and arm, the arm is broken in three pieces and the shoulder was broken up bad also. They are saying 8 weeks before he gets back going again.
                            The driver is beat up also, but they both will be ok.

                            Kurt

                            The dear are fine!

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                              Re: Tuning the BigStuff3 for E85?

                              wow - that's awful... I am glad to hear he's going to be OK.
                              www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X