Drag Week: New Registrations and Scheduling

[BBR]

Meeeeee tooooo!!!!

[Neverlift]

Why not give the DD class their own lanes and the class cars their own lanes, just pull 8 to 10 out of each lane alternating. This would allow anybody to make a pass when they are ready. Nobody gets certain times to run, and nobody should complain, just make a pass between 9.30 and 2.00, how hard can that be.

[JeffMcKC]

It may evolve during the Week . Being N/A, I would like to pick a Time when the track and air are both there for us. But it will be a equal chance for all.

[38P]

1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000x

Post shows how much time you spend at the track.....and the keyboard.

Pardon me for expecting an intelligent discussion of a techincal topic on BS.

With the increasing availability of voidless and sipeless** radial drag slicks, the question about carcass construction (specifically NOT compound or tread design), seemed appropriate.

Most certainly, the COMPOUND of a tire's tread has a foreseeable effect on how much the tread is abraded or sheared and the coefficient of "grip."*** And a "hard" tire with voids and sipes is generally designed to evacuate the area under the tread, so a mild "scrubbing" effect is predictable, as the softer rubber deposited on the surface is abraded and evacuated away. Tire slippage would tend to increase the abrasiveness of a "hard" tire.

But thus far, no one has explained why if two racing tires have the same tread characteristics (compound, temperature, ungrooved "slick" tread), why a bias ply slick would lay down rubber and a radial slick would allegedly "pick up" rubber.

Although the rolling resistance of a bias ply slick would be greater due to the opposing diagonal cord construction, which could possibly lead to more shearing and slightly higher localized temperatures due to internal friction, would this be sufficiently different to change the "pick up" characteristics of the tire?

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NOTES:
**technically all tires not worn down to the belts and cords have a "tread." Racing slicks merely do not have voids (e.g. grooves) and sipes (e.g. small "cuts")).

***Coefficient of grip is calculated F=uN,wherein F is the force generated, u is the coefficient of friction, and N is the weight on the surface. The coefficient of friction is affected by tread compound, abrassiveness and stickiness of the surface, heat and other factors.
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TOP ELEVEN REASONS WHY ALMOST NONE OF THE "SUPERHEROS" WILL POST ANYTHING ON THIS TOPIC BUT AD HOMINEM ATTACKS

11. Washed a half a bottle of Viagra down with a "Forty" before logging on.

10. Engorging one's ego is more gratifying than helping everyone understand the "why" behind racing "wisdom."

9. Inhaled too much burnout smoke.

8. Too busy contemplating the "miracle" GM "LESS" V8 and how to heist another one.

7. Such "secret" knowledge is only for "insiders."

6. Rudeness is perceived as an advantage at the track.

5. They want everyone to believe that "serious" drag racers are anti-social jacka$$es

4. Thinking and writing something other than schoolyard insults is just too taxing.

3. Fear that someone could develop a greater understanding of the topic than they have.

2. Afraid that someone will question their "unquestioned" brilliance.

1. They can't admit they don't know the answer, either.

[lun40119]

I thought about that too jeff......I'd like to run while the air is a little more favorable for the NA stuff.......but it goes back to the age old ball buster. Same Day Same track...........sure does sort out all the bullshit!!!

[dieselgeek]

Pardon me for expecting an intelligent discussion of a techincal topic on BS.

Perhaps you should wait until the guy who can explain it, gets off work? some folks do an 8-5 job ya know.

[38P]

Perhaps you should wait until the guy who can explain it, gets off work? some folks do an 8-5 job ya know.

The question was posted almost twenty-four hours ago. Plenty of time for "Joe Goodyear" to chime in with some "secret" tire engineering knowledge.

[milner351]

I know enough about tires that I know I don't know enough to post an intelligent answer, I hope someone does.

Tires are very complex, a change to just about any factor has an impact on all other factors, rolling resistance, tread life, ride, noise, braking, handling, etc. it's a balancing act, race tires are in thier own league entirely.

[38P]

I know enough about tires that I know I don't know enough to post an intelligent answer, I hope someone does.

Tires are very complex, a change to just about any factor has an impact on all other factors, rolling resistance, tread life, ride, noise, braking, handling, etc. it's a balancing act, race tires are in thier own league entirely.

Fair answer. I'm not discounting that there might be an effect. I'd just like someone who KNOWS to explain it.

Certainly it's a complex subject that's affected by many variables. For example, in the types of racing I have the most direct exposure to (i.e. racing with corners taken at speed), soft compound tires often shear larger bits of tread more than "lay down" a film of rubber, resulting in what the Europeans call "clagg" and the Yanks refer to as "marbles." Of course, such shearing tends to occur under high lateral g loading at vectors to the rotational direction of the tires on unprepared asphalt surfaces (e.g. no PJ1/VHT "Trackbite" or other sticky substances that would tend to affix rubber to the track)

And Formula One viewers have grown accustomed to cool-down laps off-line to "pick up" marbles (initially to make sure that tires weren't worn down below minimum specifications when that was a concern, and reportedly sometimes to add a few ounces to the minimum weight of the car for post race inspection), so certainly a hot, sticky slick can be made to "pick up" rubber under correct circumstances (which wouldn't seem too applicable to drag racing).

[JeffMcKC]

I am not taking the bait, do what you want, say what you want. Its your past history that says you just want to argue not learn.

[A/Fuel]

I found that at 130+ track temps you don't want to line up in your burnout tracks....also, you can scuff the rubber up with a shoe when it's that hot.

Could you guys just use seperate lanes?

[TC]

I am not taking the bait, do what you want, say what you want. Its your past history that says you just want to argue not learn.

I'm sure that a lot of people including myself would like to know how anything other than a bias-ply slick will rip the rubber off the track?? Got any links to where I can understand the science behind it??......

[slimbo5]

Anything with grooves or any type of tread will rip the rubber up..

[TC]

Anything with grooves or any type of tread will rip the rubber up..

You would think that after a Friday night run what you brung event there would be no rubber left on the track with all the DD's that race on those nights.......

[JeffMcKC]

I did not say that TC You and your Pal did.
A DD regular radial tire is not soft and has tread, it rips rubber up. Racing Radials have to dead hook to work or you will go into a violent tire shake or spin just like you’re in the burn out box still. Radials like to have a small thicker layer of rubber on the track with lots of spray to stay hooked. They are Faster than a Bias tire a lot of times, because it will go back round quicker, rolls easier and with the weight of the cars the sidewall works better but it has to dead hook because it will not recover once it slips.
A Bias tire likes a very light rubber on the track with spray because you don’t dead hook a Bias tire, ( this is why they scrap it before a Pro Session is ran at a NHRA event) The bias tire will want to slip, not spin, but slip, to get the wheel speed up this keeps it from bouncing the wheel off the track with the low pressure and the slip is the reason you don’t see many drag Slicks hit the bumper ( it’s not dead hooked) if on a Bias tire you wheel stand it’s a lack of power to make the tire slip for how the car is set up. Next time you watch the super slow mo on a Top Fuel car watch it compress the tire till the wheelie bar hits and unloads it to make it slip along with using the clutch to get the wheel speed to go up and get round again.
When the temps come up and the track gets slick that’s why a radial has a hooking issue and if the track has rubber pulled loose it also makes it hard to dead hook the car without loosening it up and running the chance of the pinion climbing the ring gear and ending up on the bumper, the window for the radial to work in is much smaller than the bias tire.

The Tracks are Prepped different for one tire over the other also if you go to a event that’s set for one over the other.


TC go look at the line, it will have two bare spots where they launch.