Tour route "type" question and transmission question.

[Eric]

Hello, Folks.
Have the white board up on the kitchen fridge, and making a list of things needed to get done.
If we wish to run it next year.
And a few questions came up, from those that drove for decades before the overdrive transmission was widespread in use.
1) what type of roads is the tour route mostly, is it mostly highways 55-70mph speed limits or main roads that the speed limits are 40-55mph.
and if a mix, about how much most years of one over the other on the "official route"
2) Those that have taken your own back road type route from stop to stop, did you make it to the next stop before the events at that location were over?

The reason for this question is I never travelled much when my vehicles didn't come with an o/d transmission and most that I owned had 2.73 or 2.40ish gears to make up for the lack of it, or because they were smog era pre h/p rebirth vehicles.

The person that may go with me, drove for decades before the o/d was a thing and is like MEH, we never really needed it, but also stated, gas was cheaper and the speed limits were 55mph, not that he ever followed those limits.

The vehicle has a vortec truck 350 with a cam swap, that has proven to be 300-320hp(Going by others that stuffed same cam in, had it tested and had the test print out, I haven't had it tested, going by others test with same engine and parts swap) , th350 and 3.08 gears with tires not picked as that will depend on what works once lowering in finalized. but most likely 26" tall but might be 28"

While a 308 gears vehicle really need o/d for the tour? or will it make a huge difference.
The transmission that would be used is the 2004r with a 0.67:1 overdrive .
I guess it's worth will depend on the type roadways driven on the tour, and why I am asking.
Thanks.

[Big Dave]

The route consist of a mix of 2 line back roads and some interstate driving. Usually very little interstate is on the route. My rise ride doesn't have o/d and it's a pure 1970 vintage big block Mopar so fuel mileage isn't very good but the ride is excellent. I have to stop every 150 to 170 miles for gas but that for me is a good thing getting to stretch the legs and sometimes I'll watch the power tour cars roll by for a few minutes. So bring what you got and enjoy the ride and meet lots of great people.

[70chevyC-10]

Getting to the start point and back from the end point (depending where home is) are the majority of the highway miles but you don't have to be on the highways either, you can side road it if you don't want to drive at highway speeds. The tour itself (as Big Dave mentions) is primarily back roads with the occasional jaunt on the Interstates to get to the next side road of America. You drive as fast or as slow as you want and if you burn a little more gas, hey, it's only money. Don't overthink it - just come on out and enjoy the experience. I planned on doing two stops (one driving leg) in 2008 and before I got to the second stop I was hooked and went another day. The next year I long-hauled and coming up is number 12 long haul in a row. Great fun, great people and I look forward to it year round.

[moparjim71]

None of my cars have OD either and it’s been fine. On the to and from I usually stick to the speed limit anyway.

[Jesse James 80]

The thing with OD, ironically, without computers and fuel injection, you need a steeper rear gear ratio to keep them in their happy place. I'm not sure what you're vehicle is, but a higher rear end and OD don't play well together. My C10 has a 700R and 3.73, it loves that set up. I know guys with C10s that had OD and 3.08s and hated them (trucks are heavier and a brick) You *might* be OK with a 3.08 and OD assuming this is a GM car, but I'd bet you'd be a lot happier with a 3.40 something, or even 3.73.

My 65 Mustang had a 2.80 rear and C4 my first tour, it did OK, was a little loud, fuel mileage was around 15/16 mpg, but I blew up that trans. I always wanted a manual so I bought a T5 from a late 90s V6 mustang (good for 300 HP - my car only has like 200hp) with a 0.73 OD ratio. I drove a tour with it with the 2.80 rear (ran out of $ and time) and wow was it a dog. Gutless turd up hills, but could keep up with traffic without issues for the most part. Averaged around 18 mpg. For the most recent tour, I bumped it up to a 3.25 rear, and the car really likes that combo. I even averaged close to 20 mpg (I also tuned the car with vacuum and AFR gauges this time too). I'm looking into a "someday" Tremec TKO with a 0.63 OD and I would bump the rear up to a 3.55.

Whatever you decide, make sure you buy a "built" 200R, in stock form, most were never meant to take much more than 200-220 HP.

For me, the whole point of OD isn't the fuel savings (it's nice, but really usually only a couple, maybe a few mpg more on the highway - city mileage seems to stay about the same in the vehicles I've converted), it's being able to pop up in that higher gear at 55+ and be able to talk to your shotgun rider or listen to the radio. I've met a lot of hard core guys that are like "all I ever listen to is the engine whining on the highway" and I'm like, you must have never been on a PT, driving by yourself for 12-14 hours straight, give me some good music

[Eric]

Thanks, guys.
The math with a 26 tall tire comes to 2926 rpm at 70mph. with the 2004r and locked up converter it be 1867 call it 1900rpm.
So it looks like It would not be needed really on the tour itself, but the drive to the start and from the end knocking 1000 rpm might or might not be worth it.

What are folks avg. for mpg in 350 cid non o/d non efi vehicles with normal street gears.? By normal I mean, no need to reply if your running 3.90/4.10 etc
I looked up mid 80's cars that the o/d was optional, but most were 305's trucks found 350v8's, but they used the 700r4 and those gear splits most likely make comparing them a moot point.
And the mpg epa ratings only show 1-2mpg gain highway with the o/d but I'm going to assume the epa testing isn't reality and the difference is less in normal driving.
I'm sure a o/d trans with 3.73's would make the vehicle much faster. but a gear change might not be in the budget before next June.

[Monster]

Before the 55mph speed limit came into effect in 1975, the highway speed limits were 75-80 mph and we did that all day long, so I'm not sure what the big deal is ?

~ a child of the 60's

[Eric]

Before the 55mph speed limit came into effect in 1975, the highway speed limits were 75-80 mph and we did that all day long, so I'm not sure what the big deal is ?

~ a child of the 60's

What was the price of gas back then?
What is 93/94 super today? or even 89 mid grade.?
Sorry, but I have a budget and fuel cost on the trip is part of it.
I'd love to not have to think about it, and just, the fuel cost is what it is. But Some are not so lucky.
I'm thinking the higher rpm also is why they were all done by 100k on the clock and todays vehicle are just broken in at 100k.

[squirrel]

you can spin a 350 all day long at 3500 rpm or more without any problem. If you are real concerned about it, turn up the stereo?

We forget how things used to work. Use the drive as an opportunity to learn, if you're young, or to remember, if you're old enough.

[Jesse James 80]

It's all in what you want. A 2K+ dollar OD trans swap can buy a lot of gas for the 2-4 mpg increase.

An average PT is around 14-1,500 miles for the entire week. Lets say you have another 1,500 mile round trip to get to the start and get home. Let's assume 3,000 miles total (I had one PT long haul that was 2,500, 3,300, and 3,400 miles each). 3000 miles /12 mpg = 250 gallons x $2.50 average = $625. Add OD and let's say you get an extra 3mpg average (which could be a stretch) 3000 miles / 15 mpg = 200 gallons x $2.50 = $500. You're only saving +/-$125 for a lot of work and money. Installing OD just for this trip so you can save less than $200 in fuel doesn't make mathematical sense, unless you've gotten everything for free. Even back in 2002 my rebuilt 700R was $1,200 and I spent another $300 on bowtie overdrives TV cable and TC unlock kits). I would not trust an unknown 700R or 200R without a lot of test drive time before this trip. I initially installed a junkyard 700R in my truck and it make it about 600 miles before it lost 3rd and OD.

Again, I like my stuff a little loud. 3K rpm in my mustang or C10 and my ears would be sore over a full day of driving (especially my C10, it's obnoxiously loud at those RPMs), so the OD quiets them down. If I didn't have OD I'd have a MUCH quieter exhaust system (like cars did back in the day) to make the higher RPMs tolerable. I didn't install OD to save on gas money. My C10 has had a 700R since 2002. I probably only broke even on the fuel savings/install cost a few years ago. I did it because it's what I wanted to do.

[htrdharley]

I love having the OD. It lets me cruise at 85-90+ mph instead of 70. And I get better fuel economy at that speed.

Some engines will not like being lugged down to 1800 or 1900 rpm. If there is any kind of performance cam and decent compression in the engine it will be more efficient at a higher rpm. I would predicate your decision on the entire package including the engine and mods done. Some people may think the lower the RPM the better the gas mileage. This is not the case. Your mostly stock 350 might like 1800 rpm, but I would do some steady highway driving at different rpm ranges and see what nets the best for you.

My particular engine combo gets better fuel mileage at 24-2600 RPM than it does at 1800. It is just not efficient under 2200.

[moparjim71]

We plan on doing a lot of long trips in our cars after we retire so I am looking at adding OD and maybe FI to some. For the Power Tours it would be nice too but not a necessity. Gas can get expensive, the two years we did the Tour in the 57 Dodge we averaged just under 11 MPG and premium those years was close to $4.00. But, it was worth it!!

[Eric]

It's all in what you want. A 2K+ dollar OD trans swap can buy a lot of gas for the 2-4 mpg increase.

An average PT is around 14-1,500 miles for the entire week. Lets say you have another 1,500 mile round trip to get to the start and get home. Let's assume 3,000 miles total (I had one PT long haul that was 2,500, 3,300, and 3,400 miles each). 3000 miles /12 mpg = 250 gallons x $2.50 average = $625. Add OD and let's say you get an extra 3mpg average (which could be a stretch) 3000 miles / 15 mpg = 200 gallons x $2.50 = $500. You're only saving +/-$125 for a lot of work and money. Installing OD just for this trip so you can save less than $200 in fuel doesn't make mathematical sense, unless you've gotten everything for free. Even back in 2002 my rebuilt 700R was $1,200 and I spent another $300 on bowtie overdrives TV cable and TC unlock kits). I would not trust an unknown 700R or 200R without a lot of test drive time before this trip. I initially installed a junkyard 700R in my truck and it make it about 600 miles before it lost 3rd and OD.

Again, I like my stuff a little loud. 3K rpm in my mustang or C10 and my ears would be sore over a full day of driving (especially my C10, it's obnoxiously loud at those RPMs), so the OD quiets them down. If I didn't have OD I'd have a MUCH quieter exhaust system (like cars did back in the day) to make the higher RPMs tolerable. I didn't install OD to save on gas money. My C10 has had a 700R since 2002. I probably only broke even on the fuel savings/install cost a few years ago. I did it because it's what I wanted to do.

Understood,
but the o/d install isn't coming back out after the tour, or vehicle parked, It maybe sold if we can't bring it back to Brazil.
We sourced a 2004r 2 years ago, have the rebuild kit, the new converter, and tv cable brackets.
1st thing we have to do, is find out if we can bring the vehicle back with us or not.
Do you really have 89 mid grade for 2.50 a gallon. From what I've read the engine we have will require 89 or better.

[Monster]

Brazil ?

Well that explains a lot about your questions ... running the Tour from another country has a whole new set of obstacles and challenges. Our fuel types and prices vary from State to State, but just yesterday I filled up with Unleaded 89-octane for $2.49 a U.S. gallon. Around here in Florida, most stations have Unleaded (10% Ethanol) in 87 Regular, 89 Mid-grade and 91 Premium. Some of us search out Ethanol-free gasoline, which I've seen in 91 and 93-octane.

[Jesse James 80]

If you already have everything, I say go for it. I was just trying to show that if you were trying to just save money for the PT buying everything to swap for an OD doesn't make sense, but since you already have it, go for it.

Fuel prices in the mid-west and southeast where the PT usually runs have been in the 2.25-2.75 range for a few years now (ad 20-25 cents per gallon for 89). That doesn't mean they won't be 3.50 next year, but who knows.

The 2018 PT start and finish were somewhat close to my home, over 2,400 miles I only spent +/-$250 in fuel that year.