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  • turbo 400 tailshaft bushing

    I need some help/guidance.
    My gearvendors uses a turbo 400 styled tailshaft housing - it may be an OEM GM part or just patterned after one. The bushing is walking out of the housing bore and pushing up against the seal. This causes it to leak - blowing the fluid past the seal.

    SO my questions are:

    1. How much press/crush does this bushing need?
    2. Do they make oversized bushing for when there isn't enough press/crush?
    3. Any opinions on what is causing the bushing to move?
    4. Any opinions on using either red or green loctite (assuming that the housing bore is too large to properly hold the bushing in place)


    Thank you

  • #2
    Great questions. I wish I could help you with some info. All I know is how to kill a tailshaft bushing in a AOD/4R70W.

    Maybe you could also post this in the Tech section for more visibility.

    Comment


    • #3
      Several options. Yes you can locktite it. We used to use red locktite on problem designs at the trans shop I used to work at. Make sure it is good and clean first on both parts with alcohol or brake cleaner. Spread a very thin layer with your finger over the whole thing. Most of it will press out the ends anyway and you'll need to clean it up before it dries.

      Other options: You can file 2 or 3 notches in the housing itself with a round file, back at the innermost part towards the front of the vehicle (with the housing off of course). File it at an angle, then get a small punch and put a blunt rounded tip on it, and after you press the bushing in, stake it down in those notches, and deburr the staked parts of the bushing.

      You can try knurling a new bushing, which will increase the outer diameter, but I've never done that on a trans bushing and don't know how well it would work. Probably not strong enough material to get knurled without bending the sh!t out of it, and even if you could, it would likely interfere with the inner clearance to the driveshaft.

      BUT your best bet is to call gear vendors before doing ANYTHING. They have probably seen it before and can tell you why, or at least tell you if the housing is the same as a 400, which would allow you to try a different housing and not screw with that one. Maybe they're good guys and will just send you whatever you need to fix it, especially if you bought it new.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Alan, I would definitely call Gear Vendors and let them know what is happening, Is this the 1st time or is this a problem from earlier? If it is from an earlier fix maybe that bushing just was slightly too small but again contacting Gear Vendors is a 1st to do.

        Comment


        • #5
          How is the condition of the drive shaft yoke? Staking a bushing sounds like the best option with loctite to insure, however a call to GV would be my first move. Let us know the outcome........
          200WINS HRPT Long Haul 2008, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 Bettendorf, WI Dells, 15 Champaign, Madison, 16 OK City, Wichita, KC, 17 KC, Newton

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          • #6
            I talked with my contact at GearVendors today - as always he was very helpful. He sent me a few PDFs (pages) from the manual that showed the compontent break down (assembly) and listed the part numbers and descriptions. He priced out a new tailshaft housing with bushing and seal at $175 plus shipping.

            I called Napa - they didn't have the bushing in stock (3 - 4 days out of Atlanta)

            I called Transtar Industries (transmission supply house) and they had every thing in stock for a lot less than Napa and I can pick it up tomorrow after 9:00am.

            So now I have to figure out if I am going to spend an obscene number of hours trying to remove the bushing without taking the transmission apart. Unlike "boob" I don't have a lift and R&Ring a C6 with gearvendors while the car is up on jackstands is something I really don't look forward to doing.

            The plan will be to use GREEN loctite on a new bushing and hope that it solves the problem.

            It wouldn't hurt my feelings to actually know why this is happening but I am at a loss for what to check. I guess I could take the driveshaft in and have it checked for straightness and balance eventhough I don't notice any vibrations in the drivetrain.

            I suspect that I won't be attending the 2011 Suncoast Super Boat Grand Prix Festival Car Show on Sunday(6/26) in Lakewood Ranch

            Comment


            • #7
              Allen, they do make a tool to remove/install that bushing in chassis. Got ours thru Snap-On, but is available thru other sources. If you have enough room to change the seal, you will have enough room the do the bushing also. The only reason the bushing would have "walked" is if the housing bore was too large(worn) or bushing was too small(but you already knew that). I have used the green loctite with good success on bores that were slightly too large for a "press" fit. I forget the name of it right now, but it is not threadlocker. Good luck
              Donna
              Williamston, MI (Ohio too)
              Long Haul 2007,2008,2009,2010,2011 2012,2013,2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry Allen, I inadvertantly tried to lead you astray The "green" product I was thinking of is called high temperature sleeve retainer. It is a blue tube with a green stripe on it. The product is actually more blue in color than green. It is marketed under the "Permatex" brand name and is available in a .20 fl oz/6 ml size tube. Part number #64000. It works similar to loctite , but is made for larger gapped parts. Hope this helps more than the last post
                Donna
                Williamston, MI (Ohio too)
                Long Haul 2007,2008,2009,2010,2011 2012,2013,2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by redragtop View Post
                  Sorry Allen, I inadvertantly tried to lead you astray The "green" product I was thinking of is called high temperature sleeve retainer. It is a blue tube with a green stripe on it. The product is actually more blue in color than green. It is marketed under the "Permatex" brand name and is available in a .20 fl oz/6 ml size tube. Part number #64000. It works similar to loctite , but is made for larger gapped parts. Hope this helps more than the last post
                  Mike

                  We are on the same page - I was actually refering to that exact product - I just mistakenly called it Loctite. I checked on pullers - they seem to go for $110 - $120 plus tax and shipping. At that price - for a use it one time deal, I am going to waste a few hours pulling the rear mufflers and tailpipes to see how low the back of the trans will drop when I pull the trans cross member. IF (IIIIFFFFFFFFF) it will drop a couple of inches then I think I can get to the 8 mounting bolts and slide the gearvendors off the transmission without having to drop the complete assembly out.

                  As to the root cause - so you don't think driveshaft balance or u-joint angles could cause this to happen? I don't believe either are a problem myself but I don't want to be doing this every year either.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cstmwgn View Post
                    Mike

                    We are on the same page - I was actually refering to that exact product - I just mistakenly called it Loctite. I checked on pullers - they seem to go for $110 - $120 plus tax and shipping. At that price - for a use it one time deal, I am going to waste a few hours pulling the rear mufflers and tailpipes to see how low the back of the trans will drop when I pull the trans cross member. IF (IIIIFFFFFFFFF) it will drop a couple of inches then I think I can get to the 8 mounting bolts and slide the gearvendors off the transmission without having to drop the complete assembly out.

                    As to the root cause - so you don't think driveshaft balance or u-joint angles could cause this to happen? I don't believe either are a problem myself but I don't want to be doing this every year either.
                    Allen, it is hard to justify the price of the tool for one or even a couple of jobs. However, having to redo the job after spending the extra labor to complete the task without it is even more costly. Perhaps your local rent-a-tool place would have it available at a reasonable cost. If I personally owned said tool, I would ship it to you and you could return it when done. I am lucky enough to have access to it on an overnight only basis when I need it.

                    If you do end up removing your GV assembly, a very long extension makes it much easier. Can't you remove the extension without pulling complete GV unit?

                    Bushing should have to be driven in with moderate pressure (light hammer strokes). If you can push it in by hand, that would be a problem that the sleeve retainer may fix.

                    I don't think the driveshaft or u-joints are the problem. That bushing is designed to stay in the housing and wear on the surface the yoke rides on. A lack of lube on that surface could cause your problem. As was stated earlier, a chat with GV's or some other driveline "expert" may reveal additional concerns to check for.

                    Personally, I would remove old bushing and install new one. If everything looked and seemed "normal", finish install and drive.
                    Donna
                    Williamston, MI (Ohio too)
                    Long Haul 2007,2008,2009,2010,2011 2012,2013,2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by redragtop View Post
                      Can't you remove the extension without pulling complete GV unit?
                      They don't recommend it as there are a handful of components (planet carrier, uni-directional clutch bearing (sprag?), thrust washer, bushing and some oil control stuff) that are NOT held on to the end of the shaft with circlips. They recommend assembling the tailshaft with the gv unit standing vertical on its front end.

                      Originally posted by redragtop View Post
                      Bushing should have to be driven in with moderate pressure (light hammer strokes). If you can push it in by hand, that would be a problem that the sleeve retainer may fix.
                      The bushing is not loose enough to slip out by hand as I have already tried to pull it out with a couple pair of needle nose pliers and it did not want to move easily. I didn't want to maul anything until I was sure how I was going to get the bushing out.

                      Originally posted by redragtop View Post
                      Personally, I would remove old bushing and install new one. If everything looked and seemed "normal", finish install and drive.
                      That is my plan - I will attempt to "fix" this one time before spending the money on a new tailshaft housing.

                      Thanks for the help.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by redragtop View Post
                        Bushing should have to be driven in with moderate pressure (light hammer strokes).
                        A th400 extension housing bushing is kind of long, I have to beat on them for a while to get them in all the way. Maybe I'm just not strong enough?

                        Considering the amount of work to get the thing out and apart, it might be wise to buy a new housing with bushing. Then you can have a little confidence that you might fix the problem. And you can play with the damaged housing at your leisure, perhaps send it back and see if they think there's a problem with it...who knows, they might help you out...or they might not...but you'll find out about the company in the process.
                        Last edited by squirrel; June 22, 2011, 06:45 AM.
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                        "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by redragtop View Post

                          Bushing should have to be driven in with moderate pressure (light hammer strokes). If you can push it in by hand, that would be a problem that the sleeve retainer may fix.
                          Originally posted by squirrel View Post

                          A th400 extension housing bushing is kind of long, I have to beat on them for a while to get them in all the way. Maybe I'm just not strong enough?
                          Perhaps I should have quantified this statement. Should drive about like a tapered wheel bearing race. Tapping in with a 8 oz. hammer would indicate too loose a fit and pounding with a 2+ lb. maul would indicate too tight. Using a 16 oz. hammer with light to moderate strokes should be the ticket. It is a long bushing, so will require more strokes but same amount of force.

                          If you could get a pair of pliers on it and move/wiggle it at all, that is not a good sign
                          Donna
                          Williamston, MI (Ohio too)
                          Long Haul 2007,2008,2009,2010,2011 2012,2013,2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So, how ya doin' Allen?
                            Ed, Mary, & 'Earl'
                            HRPT LongHaulers, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19.


                            Inside every old person is a young person wondering, "what the hell happened?"

                            The man at the top of the mountain didn't fall there. -Vince Lombardi

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oletrux4evr View Post
                              So, how ya doin' Allen?
                              Probably muttering something by now
                              Donna
                              Williamston, MI (Ohio too)
                              Long Haul 2007,2008,2009,2010,2011 2012,2013,2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019

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