Thinking about taking the plunge - hardware help, please!

[Schtauffer]

Dieselgeek might have me talked into doing EFI on the Chevelle. The clincher will be cost. If I can keep it under $1,000 it is possible. I am requesting experienced input on hardware selection to achieve 275 hp at the wheels while meeting the $1,000 goal. Is that possible?

The car is a 67 Malibu. Engine is a 327, .040 over, double hump heads, .480"/230 @.050 cam. Trans is a 700R-4, rear is a 12-bolt with 3.55's. The car has gone a best of 13.50 @ 100 mph. I like to road trip the car.

I have a set of Vortec heads that are ready to go. I could use them, and install the intake, poppet injector spider setup, and throttle body from a 96-99 pickup/96-2003 van; I'm sure the cost at a U-pull-it would be very low. Or would I be better off using something else, given the poor reputation of the poppet "spider" setup?

Fuel pump? I am thinking some manner of inline pump, if possible.

I would have to say my biggest goal is to cut the stink when it idles; it is rich at an idle thanks to the 4777 with a weenie cam. Right now when we sit in traffic my wife complains of headache, etc. Some of that might be the old-school cam, which I am willing to change out if necessary. Secondary goals are driveability and fuel economy; sadly performance is last on the list, but it is one of the goals as well.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[dieselgeek]

I don't know anyone that made the "spider" thing work, although I know you will be able to control it. Make sure you at least look into a true MPI setup. One thing for sure, whatever you end up with, you should not have a problem tuning it to be suitably lean at idle. Look on the bright side, you shouldn't have a hard time convincing the wife to spend a little $$ on EFI...!

I see Randal just got back from his trip. Hoping he chimes in here shortly, he's the master at what you are seeking. I am sure some craigslist/junkyard skills can help you dramatically here. Other guys here have certainly thought this through as well, let's hear what they have to say!

This should make a good thread!

-Scott

[Remy-Z]

I'm watching this now, to adapt to SB Mopars...

[Beagle]

I can't remember what Randal is using for a lift pump, but a F150 in line is 40psi / 88lph and good for about 300 whp iirc.

I'd look into the marine stuff, they used MPI on Vortec heads. A lot of guys change the spider stuff out for the boat stuff and pick up power. It gives you a choice of injectors. I'd see about 24# from a 460 or there were a bunch of 30+ pound units in blower V6's. Megasquirt has drivers for both low and high impedance injectors I believe. The Mustang/Camaro bunch are always upgrading, you can probably find them for dirt. 24# injectors will cover about 400 hp, pushing them pretty hard at that level.

I'd be tempted to look at the already bunged ebay single planes, and an elbow for the TB unless you can find something like Randal did (Old Holley TB) and maybe keep it under the hood that way. The 400.00 Weiand stealth ram 7542 I think is designed for L31 heads on a Gen1 SBC. I'd be real tempted to just go that way. Throttle bodies are everywhere... maybe see if you can find the dimensions on it and look at the TB on a 460. The reason I keep getting on the 460 stuff is it is cheap and usually sized about right for a 400 hp small block.

I think you can get it done for 1000 even with the Weiand (would be tight with that). How tall is your hood? The big expense I can see is probably the intake, the MS, and the wiring harness. Diyautotune (Matt Cramer?) has a couple of users here for the MS / Harness as far as I know. They can probably chime in and give you better information, I just wanted to toss out the Marine stuff for an idea. A lot of the truck guys seem to like it... but then again, the 130.00 Ebay single plane (Probably a Professional Products) and an elbow with somebodies old 70 or 75mm TB would be simple and hammer effective. Maybe look at the RPM or air gap and a TBI as a first step? That seems the simplest but I'd think hard about going MPFI from the onset and not having to buy stuff twice.

[dieselgeek]

Beagle has thought this through - nice post man!

[milner351]

This has been addressed before - forgive me for not providing the link - but can't you (Gene is a talented guy afterall) put a TPS on the throttle shaft of a holley and use it as a throttle body?

removing the squirters and booster venturi's from a junk holley would be easy, and you already have the intake / throttle cables and kick down cables set up for it.

[TheSilverBuick]

Just got back from Phoenix, averaged 18.5mpgs

I ran a $30, right from the junkyard, Ford pump from a late 80's, early 90's F-250. I ran that pump for well over a year, and replaced it shortly before Drag Week with a new $110 version from NAPA, and the junkyard one remains backup. The new one draws three or four amps less than the OE junkyard one for those alternator limited applications. It's also "only" a 5/16th diameter fuel line pump, but I've yet to run lean at WOT, far from it.

The single most expensive part of my EFI system was the Buick intake manifold at $750 Followed by the throttle body. I imagine chevy sourced stuff is cheaper, and you may score an EFI converted intake off ebay or the internet for cheap. I imagine a cheap set of 32lb/hr injectors from Summit would be more than adequate. I ran 32lb/hr's in the Skylark for a couple years and only recently bumped up to 44lb/hr ones when I did the aluminum head and roller cam upgrades.

Under $1,000 is a tall order, the intake manifold is going to be the limiting factor on cost I think. I'd get a $430 MSII, $70 DIYautotune wiring harness, $350 for new injectors, $200 WBO2 sensor set up, and this is at $1050 already. No throttle body or intake, but leaves a ton of room for upgrades. Now the MS cost can be trimmed down, to $160 for an assemble it yourself 2.2 board MS1, and that will do fuel just fine, and with some upgraded parts will do spark, or the assemble it yourself 3.0 board with MS1 is $210, so half of an assembled ready to go MSII. So that can free up $200+ dollars for an intake and throttle body. Depending on your CFM requirements, you could likely get away with a ~600cfm GM TBI for a throttle body, just gut injectors out of it, or modify an old carb laying around. Squirrel talked about using one of those mid-80's Q-jets with a TPS built in.

Then of course you have to run a return fuel line to the tank if you don't already have one. I run 3/8ths feed from the tank, and a 5/16ths return. If I put too big of a fuel pump on the car that 5/16th return could be trouble, but so far for my purposes it appears to be good.

[TC]

From someone that recently built a MS Kit, do your research on the various kits that they offer......My kit ended up being a little limited for what I initially planned to do, so I compromised on a few things and I'm happy with the way I went, but if I would have known before hand I might have gone another way, though most of the changes came after I started assembling it and had to make certain choices on which way the assembly went.......Just read up on the different kits and see what they are capable of, and then be honest with yourself on how far you want to get into it, wasted spark and batch fire is the simplest..........Though a base version of TunerStudio and Mega Log Viewer are free, if you want the the full versions you can add $69.00 to the bill......I just bought mine yesterday........Basically to use the auto tune function with TunerStudio you have to buy it, and they do a package deal with Mega Log Viewer.....And IMO it's not overly priced, I mean it's no more expensive than a video game for your kid........ Jump in, what do you got to lose, it's only knowledge...........

[dieselgeek]

From someone that recently built a MS Kit,

You DID NOT build an "MS KIT" - you bought a Plug-and-play system which required you to add only a few jumpers and a couple bias resistors. Please do not assume that this means you assembled your own MS! PLease don't f*ck up this thread by posting in it any more. We're trying to help Schtauffer figure out how to do budget EFI and this is not something you've ever done, period. STAY OUT.

[TC]

You DID NOT build an "MS KIT" - you bought a Plug-and-play system which required you to add only a few jumpers and a couple bias resistors. Please do not assume that this means you assembled your own MS! PLease don't f*ck up this thread by posting in it any more. We're trying to help Schtauffer figure out how to do budget EFI and this is not something you've ever done, period. STAY OUT.

See you show your ignorance everywhere you go, you even admitted you never assembled one of these kits and I think anyone can go look at my thread and see what kind of assembly of required.......A little more than just a few jumper wires........ Unless you didn't bother to look at the pics.........