Well CarCraft Does it Again........

[SpiderGearsMan]

BWAHAHAHAHA
Carbs win EVERYTIME

[Scott Liggett]

I bet that engine with the efi would idle better and have much better drivability on the street than the carbs.

[CDMBill]

I realize this will result in the usual sh%tstorm, but I'm willing to bet that there will be be more EFI winners in this this years Drag Week heads up N/A classes than those running carbs. $100 plus dinner and drinks at the venue of my choosing in Tulsa after winners are announced.

Money talks, BS walks, as it were.

[BluLightning]

BWAHAHAHAHA
Carbs win EVERYTIME

Unless you race in Sprint Cup!

[dieselgeek]

NO shitstorm here, I'm not surprised by their results at all.


On the "high end" (max power efforts) you can't just toss any old EFI configuration at a motor and expect it to magically exceed what you can do with a carburetor.

It's like a musical instrument - you can swap out a kid's "starter" violin with a $30,000 pro instrument, but that doesn't mean the kid's suddenly going to become a virtuoso. All the EFI does is give you the OPTION of doing better than you'd do with a carburetor.

I've been doing a lot of carb+EFI comparisons. The best test is to compare an optimized carb and manifold, against an optimized EFI intake and manifold. In that case, you're going to find that the EFI will beat the carb at peak, average, and just about everything else, *if you spent the time and effort to optimze the system* - this includes finding optimum injector location and placement, PHASING of the injection event, and individual cylinder trims to make sure all 8 cylinders are working with the same mixture thus making the most power.

If carbs "won all the time" then you'd see them on today's engines that are going for the highest power per cube: sport motorcycles. If they were great at atomizing and distributing fuel, then they'd be good enough for emissions. Carbs are fine for 90% of the population out there so, they'll be around for a long time.

On our Engine Masters project, the EFI intake absolutely buries the best single or dual plane carb'd combos (competition legal or not). Meanwhile, the 4-weber IDA carb version of our EMC engine closes that gap a little bit, but still doesn't beat Nick's optimized intake.

So, I don't really care how an entry level EFI test worked for magazine guys who probably don't have the hardware and experience to show how and why EFI is better than a carburetor. Stick to carburetors if that's your thing. But in the end, if you are looking for max power, data that allows you to find the knife edge tuneup, or perhaps you seek ultimate drivability and compensation for large air density changes while operating, then EFI is probably what you need.

[oldsman496]

ok.... the newer LS engines are getting ...what - over 600 horsepower in the vette and still 25-some MPG...? EFI is a tremendous technology and trully works well.



That said, I drive my Quadrabog 35 miles a day and it has never given me a bit of trouble. It cost a little over $400 from The Carb Shop and its been doin' this for almost 12 yrs now. I luv my Quadrabog.


But if I made more money... i'd be drivin' EFI.

[Deaf Bob]

In cold wet weather here in the Pacific Wonderland... Standing outside, reaching in and turning the key WILL NOT start a carbed car without first touching the accelerator to engage the choke
While EFI, it is possible to do so.. And go back in the house and finish breakfast.. Without having to go out 2 times to blip the throttle to idle down and disengage the choke...
Pure and simple...
In Airryzona, you may do that to a carbed car year round.. Just not here...

[SpiderGearsMan]

Bull ............ I daily drove double pumper equipped cars from 1980 - 1997 in NYS ..two pumps of the throttle - fired up , a little power braking until it got over a hundred degrees
then go break a hundred traffic laws on the way to work

[Deaf Bob]

Bull ............ I daily drove double pumper equipped cars from 1980 - 1997 in NYS ..two pumps of the throttle - fired up , a little power braking until it got over a hundred degrees
then go break a hundred traffic laws on the way to work

The statement you made: two pumps of the throttle....

Thus not bull..sorry.. Carbs must have throttle PUMPED to start cold in NYS and anywhere cold, EFI.. no pumping needed..

If you wanted your car at over 100* , then you have to pump again to idle down, of course unless you have a push/pull knob on your dash..

[oldsman496]

In cold wet weather here in the Pacific Wonderland... Standing outside, reaching in and turning the key WILL NOT start a carbed car without first touching the accelerator to engage the choke
While EFI, it is possible to do so.. And go back in the house and finish breakfast.. Without having to go out 2 times to blip the throttle to idle down and disengage the choke...
Pure and simple...
In Airryzona, you may do that to a carbed car year round.. Just not here...

My Quadrabog will start without touching the accelerator and hasn't had a choke installed for the last four years. and i run a cam with a bunch of overlap... no bs there. gets good mileage too.

[Deaf Bob]

My Quadrabog will start without touching the accelerator and hasn't had a choke installed for the last four years. and i run a cam with a bunch of overlap... no bs there. gets good mileage too.

And you're in Ohio.. Have heard of the mythical chokeless carb.. Never seen one that worked right.. Every chokeless carb I've had needed pumping and babying till it chugs itself warm. I guess they do exist... Never seen one...

[SpiderGearsMan]

new york gets pretty cold
are you ASE certified ?
LOL

[Deaf Bob]

new york gets pretty cold
are you ASE certified ?
LOL

Nope.. School of Hard Knocks and College of Trial and Error and Error....

[Barry_R]

There is no cold start or driveability situation where a carb can compare to EFI at all.

At WOT there are situations where a well developed carb package can still be competitive. But most of these are classifications where a carb pacakge was either mandated, or where the rules limit the opportunities for EFI optimization. Field being equal it would be rare indeed to find a situation where all operation is at WOT with no advantage from ranges above or below peak.

I tend to hold the EMC deal off to the side since the rules have been contrived to force an advantage for EFI and new tech for editorial purposes, yet the carbs have still been in the running. Limiting throttle body size on the system using already reduced airflow as a result of fuel inclusion is pretty silly, as is the on again-off again mandating of dual plane intakes. These days a Dominator/single plane package is pretty much a Summit Racing mail order bolt it on option at less than the cost of a catalog EFI controller alone for any decent engine, yet they are illegal in EMC.

[TC]

There is no cold start or driveability situation where a carb can compare to EFI at all.

At WOT there are situations where a well developed carb package can still be competitive. But most of these are classifications where a carb pacakge was either mandated, or where the rules limit the opportunities for EFI optimization. Field being equal it would be rare indeed to find a situation where all operation is at WOT with no advantage from ranges above or below peak.

I tend to hold the EMC deal off to the side since the rules have been contrived to force an advantage for EFI and new tech for editorial purposes, yet the carbs have still been in the running. Limiting throttle body size on the system using already reduced airflow as a result of fuel inclusion is pretty silly, as is the on again-off again mandating of dual plane intakes. These days a Dominator/single plane package is pretty much a Summit Racing mail order bolt it on option at less than the cost of a catalog EFI controller alone for any decent engine, yet they are illegal in EMC.

Ummmmm, the EMC Extreme Winner last year ran a Carb.........