USB connector in Holley ECU is VERY delicate

[dieselgeek]

D/g I knew there was no way they did surface mount in house no matter if they are the. YOURRs trademark holder or a supplier.. no matter.. inside source from holley says the ubs port can be fixed.. (I've never opened one so I'll go with, that person knowing) and I'm not in anyway try'n to "pretend expert commentary" but thanks.. higher than tho.. my god.. please can you post a detailed photo of a ubs port that is part of a circuit board and not an added part after the board is made.. for giggles I opened the new tablet I got my wife and the ubs is a solder on part

Dude did you even bother to read what I posted? You're arguing circuit board design with me but you cant spell USB? Go home, you're drunk.

[NewEnglandRaceFan]

D/g I knew there was no way they did surface mount in house no matter if they are the ms trademark holder or a supplier.. no matter.. inside source from holley says the ubs port can be fixed.. (I've never opened one so I'll go with, that person knowing) and I'm not in anyway try'n to "pretend expert commentary" but thanks.. higher than tho.. my god.. please can you post a detailed photo of a ubs port that is part of a circuit board and not an added part after the board is made.. for giggles I opened the new tablet I got my wife and the ubs is a solder on part

[dieselgeek]

THE MS GUYS have a machine that does the boards that are not solder through, but placed on top.. or they send that out.. as that machinery is very costly..

The "MS Guys" have most of the surface mount devices, way back since the EMS Pro, built at a facility called Advanced Electronic Assembly. *MILLIONS* of dollars of automated equipment live here. They make all kinds of electronics boards, and MS is but one of the smaller projects they support. It's in Philadelphia. For the longest time this was the place where all megasquirt boards were put together.

DIYAutotune aren't "The Megasquirt Guys" rather, a retailer that helped pull together what was already out there and make it more accessible to customers in a commercial package. Lately they have started adding their own extraneous hardware and now they even manufacture their own version of a commercial Megasquirt-3, called "MS3-Pro" - I am not sure where that one is manufactured.

No offense but, do us a favor and do some homework or just ask before you blurt out what you think you know. It helps you look smarter, and keeps some of us from getting pissed off at your pretend expert commentary.

[Matt Cramer]

Holley told me that they at least designed their own board and firmware, but I was told that by AEM once too which is a joke, their series 1 and 2 were outsourced designs originally intended for OEM use...

I've been wondering about that too - did Holley hire a new in house design team, or outsource the board? Some features like acceleration enrichment look rather like John Meaney's work, but I didn't think they were on good terms.

And the AEM Infinity continues the pattern - oddly enough, AEM's supplier actually showed up at PRI with the original version of the Infinity before it was customized for AEM on display.

To answer the question on MegaSquirt - we build the assembled through hole boards in house; there are two contract manufacturers (one in Pennsylvania and one in Georgia) that do the surface mount installation. A couple simple SMD parts like the MapDaddy boards are an exception - we make them in-house on a hot plate.

[NewEnglandRaceFan]

I hate that phrase, but it is correct for this situation and they don't likely have a forensics team for 20 failures? Perhaps they should. Can you flip the board and take a picture of where the USB is joined?

3 post and all in this thread.. smell what I'm cook'n

[Beagle]

Yes, I politely explained that I felt that there was a product defect and I thought the little plastic blade in the connector could have been molded improperly, (resin not dried properly, etc) I designed decorative injection molded plastics for 40 years and know mistakes happen. He said there were "over 20 of these" returned and they felt they all were damaged by yanking or twisting the cable in the connector. I don't remember putting any pressure of any kind on the connection so I am of the opinion that you could damage it under "normal conditions" in the car. That said, I asked since they are a QS 9000 company if they had done "root cause failure analysis" which 20 field failures in any product would have started my to see if there was a reason for this occurring. He said that they felt is was a customer case and not product fault related. So I am left holding the bag for a weak design feature.

I hate that phrase, but it is correct for this situation and they don't likely have a forensics team for 20 failures? Perhaps they should. Can you flip the board and take a picture of where the USB is joined?

[jwhotrod]

Yes, I politely explained that I felt that there was a product defect and I thought the little plastic blade in the connector could have been molded improperly, (resin not dried properly, etc) I designed decorative injection molded plastics for 40 years and know mistakes happen. He said there were "over 20 of these" returned and they felt they all were damaged by yanking or twisting the cable in the connector. I don't remember putting any pressure of any kind on the connection so I am of the opinion that you could damage it under "normal conditions" in the car. That said, I asked since they are a QS 9000 company if they had done "root cause failure analysis" which 20 field failures in any product would have started my to see if there was a reason for this occurring. He said that they felt is was a customer case and not product fault related. So I am left holding the bag for a weak design feature.

[NewEnglandRaceFan]

Mark is talking about the 3.57 board (as well as the MS3 Pro and microsquirt) with the surface mount small components. There are mass manufactured MegaSquirt options.

That unless MS has the machine to do that, they are sending those out to someone else.. and you'd not have build it yourself kits.. as it wouldn't be worth it to not use the machine... so I'm thinking D/G say'n ms guys are the only ecu guys that build them in house.. might not be totally true.. I got to watch years ago Rockford fosgate go to this type boards.. and see them go through the machine live.. it was cool stuff. but that machine was out of the price line of anything but high volume movers.. and why they came out with an amp line that was lower cost than the "punch line" low volume would never make the investment worth it.. Holley knows this and sublets it out.. I don't even think my pro jection ecu was build by them.. it looked way to much like an MSD product

[TheSilverBuick]

Mark is talking about the 3.57 board (as well as the MS3 Pro and microsquirt) with the surface mount small components. There are mass manufactured MegaSquirt options.

[NewEnglandRaceFan]

Huh?



I'd prototype one and then I would have it manufactured. Making the part is not the hard part. Designing it is. What are you getting at?

OP - do you have a picture of the USB connection to the board? Some of the stuff I have looked at is not easily disassembled. I *wish* I had my dad's skill at that, he worked for TI in a test department where lots of stuff got one offed and "repaired"... point being that somebody who is good at it can probably repair it a lot easier than some of the rest of us... and it would be money well spent.

huh.. Surface-mount technology emerged in the 1960s, gained momentum in the early 1980s and became widely used by the mid-1990s. Components were mechanically redesigned to have small metal tabs or end caps that could be soldered directly onto the PCB surface, instead of wire leads to pass through holes. Components became much smaller and component placement on both sides of the board became more common than with through-hole mounting, allowing much smaller PCB assemblies with much higher circuit densities. Surface mounting lends itself well to a high degree of automation, reducing labour costs and greatly increasing production rates. Components can be supplied mounted on carrier tapes. Surface mount components can be about one-quarter to one-tenth of the size and weight of through-hole components, and passive components much cheaper; prices of semiconductor surface mount devices (SMDs) are determined more by the chip itself than the package, with little price advantage over larger packages. Some wire-ended components, such as 1N4148 small-signal switch diodes, are actually significantly cheaper than SMD equivalents.

[Beagle]

THE MS GUYS have a machine that does the boards that are not solder through, but placed on top.. or they send that out.. as that machinery is very costly..

Huh?



I'd prototype one and then I would have it manufactured. Making the part is not the hard part. Designing it is. What are you getting at?

OP - do you have a picture of the USB connection to the board? Some of the stuff I have looked at is not easily disassembled. I *wish* I had my dad's skill at that, he worked for TI in a test department where lots of stuff got one offed and "repaired"... point being that somebody who is good at it can probably repair it a lot easier than some of the rest of us... and it would be money well spent.

[NewEnglandRaceFan]

The only guys making their own ECUs in house are the megasquirt guys. Everyone else has them assembled elsewhere by companies that specialize in placing components.

Holley told me that they at least designed their own board and firmware, but I was told that by AEM once too which is a joke, their series 1 and 2 were outsourced designs originally intended for OEM use. So you never know. That being said, I am surprised Holley didn't help you out more than that.

I have used a ton of HPs and Dominators without the problem, if it "crumbled" then there is a materials defect in my opinion. Did you exhaust all options with Holley, politely?

THE MS GUYS have a machine that does the boards that are not solder through, but placed on top.. or they send that out.. as that machinery is very costly..

[NewEnglandRaceFan]

There are a ton of designs where the connector is integrated and cannot be replaced. Don't assume just because you had one laptop that was repairable that every single USB connector out there is as well.

understood, that's why I said unless it's the board that broke

[NewEnglandRaceFan]

yes it is potted, and they cant tell me what else is around it. The plug is one of the new mini plugs in a screw together connector. I will post pictures when I get the ECU back from Holley. If Holley doesn't make their ECU's who does?

places like Rockford fosgate.. that spent millions on a factory that build boards with parts soldered to it but not through it.. when the economy tanked, and the hifi auto gear market tanked they moved to putting stuff together for others... not say'n holleys is made there.. most likely not as ,it's in America.. but many factories do the same..

[dieselgeek]

Any ubs or other port on a circuit board is "delicate" and it can be replaced/fixed.. Holley doesn't make the ECU'S and has no way to fix them, other than send them out.. only way it's not fixable is it the board is the part that broke.. any computer repair shop should be able to handle the repair.. I've fixed 3 ubs ports 2 on my desk top and one on my older 2006 dell laptop..

There are a ton of designs where the connector is integrated and cannot be replaced. Don't assume just because you had one laptop that was repairable that every single USB connector out there is as well.