EPA legal year for going to a street legal aftermarket EMS

[Freiburger]

Re: EPA legal year for going to a street legal aftermarket EMS

Well, they do check evap here. There's a visual inspection and a gas-cap check and sometimes (if you draw the wrong guy) a thermactor-valve test on the carbon cannister if so equipped.

On a similar note, I've often hoped that someone like GM could produce an EO-numbered crate-engine and EMS package that would be legal for, say, all cars that came with 8 cylinders and a carburetor. It would be fairly easy to prove that the most generic LS1 tuneup would produce fewer emissions than, for example, a 304 AMC in a '78 Jeep. But there are too many legal hoops to jump through.

As I've said for decades, emissions laws control behavior, not emissions.

[Matt Cramer]

Re: EPA legal year for going to a street legal aftermarket EMS

From an EPA standpoint, the last year where it would unequivocally be legal to put in a standalone ECU would be 1966. The latest model year I've heard of someone getting approval for a true 50 state legal aftermarket EMS was 1979 or 1980. That system was not tuneable by the end user.

I've looked into things and it appears that you could, in theory, create a MS based device for a car built as late as somewhere around 1992, spend a lot of time getting it tuned carefully, get a CARB EO number for it, and have a 50 state legal Megasquirt for some particular car. Surprisingly, CARB rules don't explicitly ban the device being tuneable by the end user, but they do require it to provide good enough drivability and performance out of the box that the end user will not need to use that tuneability. The hoops we'd have to jump through to pull that off were difficult enough that we didn't want to try it, though.

[dieselgeek]

Re: EPA legal year for going to a street legal aftermarket EMS

Yeah but you should actually TRY to get a CARB EO number for something. There's what it says in "the rules" and then there's the people you have to take out to lunch just to get an intake approved.

There are attornies who do nothing but specialize in CARB EO number acquisition. Hire the right one and your product isn't even tested.

-scott

[Freiburger]

Re: EPA legal year for going to a street legal aftermarket EMS

Yeah, many get by with a "statement of facts" that the item in question won't affect emissions. Kinda the same waytire DOT ratings work.

[Matt Cramer]

Re: EPA legal year for going to a street legal aftermarket EMS

Yeah but you should actually TRY to get a CARB EO number for something. There's what it says in "the rules" and then there's the people you have to take out to lunch just to get an intake approved.

There are attornies who do nothing but specialize in CARB EO number acquisition. Hire the right one and your product isn't even tested.

-scott

Interesting, sounds like it's both easier and harder than I thought. We hadn't seen much need to bother with anything in our current lineup.

[CDMBill]

Re: EPA legal year for going to a street legal aftermarket EMS

Yeah, many get by with a "statement of facts" that the item in question won't affect emissions. Kinda the same waytire DOT ratings work.

And people say lawyers aren't useful. All regulatory systems have official and unofficial rules. You hire someone who knows the ropes because of this and since as many 80% of law makers have legal educations and the judiciary is, duh, 100% lawyers its not hard figure out that using a lawyer is the only way you are going got get through it as a manufacturer.

Despite its reputation, California has a huge set of loop holes design to allow 'poor' people to continue to drive non-compliant older vehicles such as gardener's trucks and 90's Hondas. For better or worse emissions enforcement is all local, often by county not even at the state level so you have to know or know someone who knows how to game the system. Around here that includes keeping cars registered in other states or counties, 'storing' them in other jurisdictions and on and on. I have yet to have my 2003 Harley truck sniffed and it has a selection of um, parts on it that might not pass if the guy knew exactly what he was looking for, but at my 'special' gas station they don't seem to look for some reason. And yes it passes the sniffer test.

Non of the foregoing should be construed as advocating or endorsing the evasion or contravention of applicable federal or State emissions laws nor should the foregoing be read as anything other than an informational communication or reported incidents intended solely to provide context for lawful compliance with applicable statutes.

[cantvalve16]

Re: EPA legal year for going to a street legal aftermarket EMS

Yikes Bill! I think I might need an attorney just to translate you last post. :D

All this junk is half the reason I don't enjoy EFI. Now I will return to my side of the board. ;)