Hot weather tune up?

[anotheridiot]

What you are failing to realize is Nitro burns very slow and that is the reason they run so much advance, they need the lead time............

Also realize that once you drop a hole on a Nitro motor there is no relighting it, it's down for the count.......

And I wonder how those coils DG is talking about will do when the Flame Front on a Nitro motor wants to put itself out.........

There is a reason they have been using Magneto's for half a century and haven't changed from them..... IMO that is because no other ignition system can produce the spark energy to keep the Nitro lit the whole run......... Because I'm sure if they could do some sort of COP setup they would be running it by now........

well, yeah, because they create massive spark without carrying a battery.

[dieselgeek]

No expert here, just relaying what I've been reading about........ So don't kill the messenger.........

You're repeating the same things over again. I have read what you post and I totally get that you "don't think IGN1As will work" and that you believe "we don't know that nitro burns slowly" and that we should "throw everything out the window when it comes to Nitro" - so there is no longer a need to repeat yourself. Thanks for the opinion and the links to stuff online. Now, if you would let the OTHER people in this thread have a conversation without constant interruption, we'd all appreciate it.

[TC]

You're repeating the same things over again. I have read what you post and I totally get that you "don't think IGN1As will work" and that you believe "we don't know that nitro burns slowly" and that we should "throw everything out the window when it comes to Nitro" - so there is no longer a need to repeat yourself. Thanks for the opinion and the links to stuff online. Now, if you would let the OTHER people in this thread have a conversation without constant interruption, we'd all appreciate it.

All I'm saying is you'd think you'd want to have an understanding of what they are using now, so you know what you have to compete with and not just think some factory coil is the holy grail of coils, when it puts out way less spark energy than what they are using.......... But hey if spark energy doesn't make a difference then why don't you go get some electric sparkers form some cigarette lighters and fire the Nitro with that, I mean spark is spark, right??......

[dieselgeek]

All I'm saying is you'd think you'd want to have an understanding of what they are using now, so you know what you have to compete with and not just think some factory coil is the holy grail of coils, when it puts out way less spark energy than what they are using..........

I appreciate that you want ME to know how the two compare, the problem is you are using incorrect math to do your comparisons... you can't compare one IGN1A coil to an entire magneto, and nobody here is telling Scott he needs to run a "single IGN1A" on his whole engine. I can't help it if you do not understand basic math. I tried, but you can't or won't, so LET'S MOVE ON.

We've read your posts and all I am asking is, quit repeating the same thing over and over. It's not your job to change my mind. You said what you have to say, now show the rest of the users here a little respect and stop ruining this thread by repeating the same old crap over and over. Please?

[TC]

I appreciate that you want ME to know how the two compare, the problem is you are using incorrect math to do your comparisons... you can't compare one IGN1A coil to an entire magneto, and nobody here is telling Scott he needs to run a "single IGN1A" on his whole engine. I can't help it if you do not understand basic math. I tried, but you can't or won't, so LET'S MOVE ON.

We've read your posts and all I am asking is, quit repeating the same thing over and over. It's not your job to change my mind. You said what you have to say, now show the rest of the users here a little respect and stop ruining this thread by repeating the same old crap over and over. Please?

I'm not saying to use a single coil either, this is a COP setup, right??...... But you do realize that the ProMag is delivering 44 amps of electricity to each plug every time it fires......... And that is something your beloved coils can't do, since they are only rated at 19 amps.......

[dieselgeek]

But you do realize that the ProMag is delivering 44 amps of electricity to each plug every time it fires.........

WRONG. The secondary current - what goes to the spark plug - is a whopping 1.2 amps, NOT 44.
From MSD's website, of all places!



So not only have you been ruining this thread with a bunch of pointless reading, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.


But something tells me you're going to keep posting, keep ruining this thread because the REAL reason you are here is because you don't want your newfound BFF learning something about how to improve their performance, right?

[anotheridiot]

that is hard to believe diesel. I guess those coils are only delivering less than an amp then. I understand it as if the constant charge was sent at the same time it would be at 44 amps, but the entire charge is not released during the 26 degrees of firing so only 1.2 amps are delivered. so it seems the firing of the coil would be a small amp number as well. anyone ever zapped by a mag would disagree its only 1.2 amps lol.

[dieselgeek]

that is hard to believe diesel. I guess those coils are only delivering less than an amp then. I understand it as if the constant charge was sent at the same time it would be at 44 amps, but the entire charge is not released during the 26 degrees of firing so only 1.2 amps are delivered. so it seems the firing of the coil would be a small amp number as well. anyone ever zapped by a mag would disagree its only 1.2 amps lol.

It's because there's more to "spark power" than just amperage. A milliamp can kill you if it's at the right voltage. But I am trying to keep from TC turning this entire thread into more of a total waste of time by simply pointing out that there is no way in hell a Pro Mag is delivering "44 amps every time it sparks"

How do you think guys ran Nitro in blown engines before the ProMag 44? Gene Adams was doing this long before MSD was around. Just because someone posts a video showing big blue sparks, doesn't mean it applies to anything we're talking about here.

Meanwhile, I have learned that the best indicator of a coil's capability is to run it in a PRESSURIZED test chamber, which I have done already.

[JeffMcKC]

What you are failing to realize is Nitro burns very slow and that is the reason they run so much advance, they need the lead time............

Also realize that once you drop a hole on a Nitro motor there is no relighting it, it's down for the count.......

And I wonder how those coils DG is talking about will do when the Flame Front on a Nitro motor wants to put itself out.........

There is a reason they have been using Magneto's for half a century and haven't changed from them..... IMO that is because no other ignition system can produce the spark energy to keep the Nitro lit the whole run......... Because I'm sure if they could do some sort of COP setup they would be running it by now........

OK, I feel its time for the Story my Dad used to tell me...................


First a little back ground:
He said Jeff the world is "Monkey See, Monkey Do", no anyone that ever knew my Dad would tell you not many came smarter on Common sense than he did, you give him a problem it got fixed. He invented many things and had a life that was always full of questions with purpose and answers to be found. I used to go down to his shop and watch everythng he did. I could look but not touch. My mom just sold the house his shop was at, I dont know what I will do when its gone, I still go down and sit and remember the days I spent down there, his tools and stuff are where he left them 18 years ago little has changed.

OK Story time, TC Pay attn. He always taught me in a story till the day he died, said it would stay with me better that way.

Jeff, when I met your mom the Ham she bought, she cut both ends off and put it in a large dish and shoved it in the oven, I asked why did you cut the ends off the Ham? She said I dont know, its how my Mom does it, so thats how I do it. (I thought we where wasting a lot of Ham he said soft so she would not hear him) Well next time we where at her Moms house, and she made Ham sure enough she cut both ends off, and put the ham in a large dish and shoved it in the oven. He asked why did you cut the ends off the Ham? She said, I dont know, its how my Mom does it so thats how I do it. Well this bothered me a lot. I like to think for myself and have people around me do the same. (The lesson) He made a trip to her moms house she was very Old at the time, and asked her why do you cut the ends off the Ham before you put it in the oven to cook it, well she looked at my Dad very strange he said, then said my dish is to small to cook a whole ham at once, so I cut the ends off and save the left overs for soup.

TC do you get the Moral of his story?

[CDMBill]

Well that was cool. I do management consulting and the first question we ask is why do you do that that way? And, when the answer is, "thatr's the way we've always done it" I know I'm going to get paid becuase the client is going to see an improvement when we work with the current employees to figure out how to do it beter.

[A/Fuel]

Two weekends ago in Martin, Michigan we had 94% and legal weight for the NHRA, it ran low 40's. We took it to Brainerd last weekend and it ran a .39 first pass. Tried to give it more timing eariler, and it slowed. It was making more power and slipping the clutch at every move we made. We added more weight and tried to balance the timing. Apperently we were behind on the weight. When it ran the .39 it broke a intake lifter at the hit, so it was down a little on power. On the second run it broke an adjuster 4.7 seconds into the run, but by then the engine was so far ahead of the clutch it allowed the engine to drop a few rpm to let the clutch start to grab. It was still running 265 mph!
Just standing on the starting line watching the clutch dust was the first clue, then leaning over the car at the shut down area and feeling the heat coming off of the back of the car was the second. It burned through my gloves and the disks were all blistered and showed signs that they were trying to weld togather. We even lowered the back wing.
When it was hot out, our clutch was locking up before 3 seconds, and our rockwell was on the hard side, we had softer disks and more weight and it was still plowing through it.

[A/Fuel]

[QUOTE=TC;664315]What you are failing to realize is Nitro burns very slow and that is the reason they run so much advance, they need the lead time............

Also realize that once you drop a hole on a Nitro motor there is no relighting it, it's down for the count.......

QUOTE]

We had a very scary and expensive incident a few weeks ago that proves nitro exploads, that same car would also start to smoke the tires then drop a hole, stop spinning the tires and pick it right back up and take off.....kinda like instant traction control. lol

[dieselgeek]

Are you guys still running the wild timing programs, or have you tried narrowing down the crazy advance/retard plan to see if you gain consistency?

[A/Fuel]

On the .39 run it had 47 at the hit, .250 sec 49 .480 sec 53 .700 sec. 58, .880 sec 63. then 2 seconds in it was at 67.
The drive shaft at .500 sec was in the 1750 range, which on this car means it was ready to go up in smoke every time. I've only seen that car get away 1800+ a very few times, at a track thats so-so it will smoke the tires at 1500.

[TC]

Two weekends ago in Martin, Michigan we had 94% and legal weight for the NHRA, it ran low 40's. We took it to Brainerd last weekend and it ran a .39 first pass. Tried to give it more timing eariler, and it slowed. It was making more power and slipping the clutch at every move we made. We added more weight and tried to balance the timing. Apperently we were behind on the weight. When it ran the .39 it broke a intake lifter at the hit, so it was down a little on power. On the second run it broke an adjuster 4.7 seconds into the run, but by then the engine was so far ahead of the clutch it allowed the engine to drop a few rpm to let the clutch start to grab. It was still running 265 mph!
Just standing on the starting line watching the clutch dust was the first clue, then leaning over the car at the shut down area and feeling the heat coming off of the back of the car was the second. It burned through my gloves and the disks were all blistered and showed signs that they were trying to weld togather. We even lowered the back wing.
When it was hot out, our clutch was locking up before 3 seconds, and our rockwell was on the hard side, we had softer disks and more weight and it was still plowing through it.

What's your thoughts on that it had less power and went faster??...... Sounds like you guys have more than enough power, so I think your efforts need to be focused on the chassis and delivering the power to the ground.......