Hot weather tune up?

[dieselgeek]

Experience, no, did I talk to a guy, yes, did he advance the timing to 70 degrees, yes, did he go faster, yes........

But then what you said earlier is from a guy you talked to, so what's the difference??......... You don't have experience either........

Who's your guy? Mine is Gene Adams and John Beck.

Thing is N/A motors like more advance than Boosted motors, and since the guy I talked to was running a blower and 70 degrees of advance, I'm wondering if A/Fuel can even run more than that...........

You have to realize that Nitro carries it's own oxygen, so it's not like your really igniting an air/fuel mixture, it's more like your trying to light a constant stream of liquid...........And if you know anything about a liquid it takes time to burn........

nope, don't know anything about burning liquids. This topic has become too advanced for me, I defer to the expertise of TC

[Brian Lohnes]

Scott, tell us about the new wrist pin location.

[TC]

In a N/A gas engine, 3* would be a lot more....

I believe before they bumped it up to 50, they were running it in the 30's....... So they basically did a 10+ degree jump at that point.....

[TC]

Scott, tell us about the new wrist pin location.

[dieselgeek]

Laughing at a joke on you?


Meanwhile, moving timing around more than a few degrees is going to go *nowhere* but slow and broken - on any application.

[TC]

Laughing at a joke on you?


Meanwhile, moving timing around more than a few degrees is going to go *nowhere* but slow and broken - on any application.

Seems A/Fuel just proved you wrong.........

[dieselgeek]

Seems A/Fuel just proved you wrong.........

Corky, did you get into mom's psycho pill bottle today?

Nobody proved anything, but Scott asked about hot weather and tuning. Tuning, *I understand very well, thanks!*

Shall I explain how combustion and peak cylinder pressure work in an alcohol and/or nitromethane engine for you Alex? There is never, ever, EVER going to be a reason to move timing around more than a few degrees unless you are looking to significantly reduce power at the potential expense of broken parts - when there are better ways to reduce power if absolutely necessary.

Don't make me get Gene Adams on here and tell you how it's done. I know when two successful nitro tuners BOTh comment that they see nearly EVERY mid-pack team out there makign huge changes to their tuneups needlessly, that the same rules apply with nitromethane as do alcohol and gasoline, with the major (tuning) differences being the flamefront speed - hence, the requirement for 50-70 degrees advance with nitro, less with alcohol, and even less with gasoline.


But then again, unlike you I've never sat on a lawn chair within 800 feet of an A/Fuel engine, so I defer to your expert tuning skills, Alex :ROFL:

[TC]

Lets just see what A/Fuel has to say and stop all the speculation....... Though they have now moved the timing twice and gone faster and didn't break any parts, which contradicts what your saying......

[dieselgeek]

Lets just see what A/Fuel has to say and stop all the speculation....... Though they have now moved the timing twice and gone faster and didn't break any parts, which contradicts what your saying......

That does not contradict what I wrote at all. Find the timing the engine wants to run - where it makes best, safe power (this is way over your head). THEN LEAVE IT THERE. I don't care who we're talking about, you don't make a tune change to the timing more than 3-5 degrees and ONLY THEN if you have MPH or dyno data to back up what you're doing.

Weather and barometric conditions will not require more than a few degrees of timing change, period, at all.

Scott once mentioned that his Racepak data shows a jagged RPM line. Want some REAL tuning secret advice, here it is: FIX THAT PROBLEM. Especially if he's using a MSD magneto box. You'll find more speed in fixing that issue alone, then making 100 different timing changes. If your ignition equipment can't track RPM properly, then your ignition is bouncing all over the damn place, and your motor is runnign for shit. This isn't a guess, optional, a suggestion, or a theory. It's something that makes a car faster, more reliable, and more consistent. Sorry to be harsh, but that's how good tuning works.

TC, I don't think you're qualified for this discussion just because you once stood next to an A/Fueler. Please shut up.

[TC]

TC, I don't think you're qualified for this discussion just because you once stood next to an A/Fueler. Please shut up.

I think the same can go for you, you have no experience just what people have TOLD YOU............ No Experience, that is what you have........

[dieselgeek]

I think the same can go for you, you have no experience just what people have TOLD YOU............ No Experience, that is what you have........

Yeah, the advice I just gave above? is one of the most important items in my bag of tuning tricks. Nobody told me that, I observed it from tuning hundreds of racing cars that run on ALL types of fuel, including nitromethane. It's clear that we need to add "experience" to the list of words whose definition you do not understand.

I see right now what your problem is. You don't know when to shut up and take good advice when it's laid in front of you. I just shared a jewel - get with the program, shut up, and take notes. Quit being this forum's number one fool.

[TC]

Yeah, the advice I just gave above? is one of the most important items in my bag of tuning tricks. Nobody told me that, I observed it from tuning hundreds of racing cars that run on ALL types of fuel, including nitromethane. It's clear that we need to add "experience" to the list of words whose definition you do not understand.

I see right now what your problem is. You don't know when to shut up and take good advice when it's laid in front of you. I just shared a jewel - get with the program, shut up, and take notes. Quit being this forum's number one fool.

You have no experience, Troll On.............

[dieselgeek]

A/Fuel,

I'm not going to post up any more ways I know to improve anyone's program, because having every other post coming from some jackwagon fool is wasting too much of my time - which is limited.

I'd love to come visit you for a weekend before a race, and go over your car's electrical system *my way* - I'd be willing to foot the travel if no improvement ends up being made. There's always room for improvement. Hit me up via PM if you have a time in mind. we talked about doing this before, I'd like to make it happen. But I am not going to share any more helpful tips while simultaneously having to deal with captain dipshit.

-Scott

[TC]

A/Fuel,

I'm not going to post up any more ways I know to improve anyone's program, because having every other post coming from some jackwagon fool is wasting too much of my time - which is limited.

I'd love to come visit you for a weekend before a race, and go over your car's electrical system *my way* - I'd be willing to foot the travel if no improvement ends up being made. There's always room for improvement. Hit me up via PM if you have a time in mind. we talked about doing this before, I'd like to make it happen. But I am not going to share any more helpful tips while simultaneously having to deal with captain dipshit.

-Scott

That's probably the best thing you can do, since you have no PERSONAL experience in the field in the first place........

And by the way numb nuts, I'm not telling him to run 70 degrees of advance, I'm just saying that is what the guy I talked to is doing, take it as you will............ I'm just wondering how close to it they are right now......... But I'll wait till I talk with A/fuel the next time I see him, so that you can't start a bunch of crap and kill the thread because all you want to do is say I don't have experience and don't know what I'm talking about, which goes the same for you........

Thing is DG I think everyone gets it, you don't have to come after everyone of my posts and remind them..... I guess that's why some of them refer to you as DieselDickHead......... In saying that do what you will but I will stop responding to your posts, in an attempt to stop you from ruining every thread on this board that I post in.......

[JeffMcKC]

TC the fact they are making radical timing changes says they are lost, and ign timing is making up for other issues.
There is only one optimal ign setting and then that is tweaked for conditions, I know in Fuel they use ign timing for many things and conditions. But I think he is in a nice way saying we don’t know, and throwing stuff and see what sticks but we don’t know why we are and why it worked.
Not much is gained from wrong experience, but learning can only if you can nail down why it worked ,for did not First.

You have experience TC, but little can be gained from it in a practical way. You out trick yourself with all your off the wall ideas that never are put into practice to see why they work or fail to give any useful feed back, they stay ideas.

Like I said, no offence to A/Fuel he is doing his best, he is in a steep learning curve Class. I know Randy hired Ron Tobler to help with his top fuel car testing and moved him a long ways in a short time 20 years ago.

Good Luck A/Fuel, I envy your challanges to work thru.