Let's assume...bench racing a claimer motor.

[Bob Holmes]

Let's assume that you were in a claimer class at the local racetrack. Anyone could buy your engine (less carb/fi and headers) for $4,000 and there is a guy at the track that has claimed engines before. Big block, small block doesn't matter. Domestic V8.

In order to win you need the most average horsepower and torque per cube and you redline at 6,500.

I don't think there is anything out there that would be better than an LSx. What's your opinion and why? Remember that cost is an issue.

Discuss

[Stich496]

gen 1 sbc
why there is enough used parts out there that it can be done cheap.. you don't need 2k heads to make 450ft lb of torque and 460hp

[82z]

What type of racing? I would think the chasis should have something to do with it.

[Brian Lohnes]

I think an old school big block could be built at the cheapest cost to do this. If the goal is to make sure you stay under (or damned near) the $4,000 bucks and cubic inches are not an issue, why not a bored and stroked rat?

[dieselgeek]

I think an old school big block could be built at the cheapest cost to do this. If the goal is to make sure you stay under (or damned near) the $4,000 bucks and cubic inches are not an issue, why not a bored and stroked rat?

Because the winner is the guy who makes the most average power and torque from 2500-6500rpm, *per cubic inch* - big blocks get their asses handed to them at this game.

Bob's talking about the proposed new class for Engine Masters Challenge - a $4000ish claimer class. A 6.0 LS (need the big bore to minimize shrouding) with a mishmash of OEM parts, the proper head porting, intake and exhaust design, and cam selection should kick ass in this contest.

I wish they'd require the carburetor and EFI system be a part of the $4000 claim however. But too many whiney carb guys who run their mega-buck, thousands-of-pulls-to-tune Shop Carburetors would cry about having to let their priceless gems go for $4000...

I'd gladly let my $180 megasquirt go with a claim. I also think EFI guys would have the inherent advantage here - EFI pretty much always out-torques and out-averages a carburetor.

[dieselgeek]

gen 1 sbc
why there is enough used parts out there that it can be done cheap.. you don't need 2k heads to make 450ft lb of torque and 460hp

I'm thinking a winning entry would be around 400 cubes making near 600hp and 600 ft-lbs. But I agree with you on a Gen 1 SBC having a LOT of potential.

Some guys put together a cheap SB2 combo with the "short track heads" they bought, and kicked serious ass from 3500-7500rpm this year. Don't count out the guys who know how to put those Ebay NASCAR parts to use. Note how I sad "to use" - not "bench racing their own awesomeness on the internet"

[38P]

The type of car and track really do make a difference to the discussion.

If I was going for maximum power and torque for cheap, I'd go with a monster 460 Ford-based combo. But the "highest average" and r.p.m. limit make me think this is really a veiled Engine Masters query. Big blocks, regardless of brand, have proven to have too many internal losses to win "highest average per cube."

If I were limited to budget factory iron and building a medium-cube mill (what seems to win "dyno races" most often) under such vague rules, the choice would come down to something with heavily-reworked Cleveland heads. Or I might go for a Mark VIII DOHC (seriously, there's some grunt that's beggin' to be released, the old heads when ported flow big, and getting the internal losses down would be easier . . . besides I know where a good cheap one is )

If there's really a claimer rule, then building something weird (i.e. Not Chevy) is probably less likely to be claimed.


UPDATE, now that I've read Dieselgeek's post and know this is really about EM, I would eliminate the 460. But I'm worried about an intake manifold rule killing the B-Head Mark VIII.

[38P]

I'd gladly let my $180 megasquirt go with a claim. I also think EFI guys would have the inherent advantage here - EFI pretty much always out-torques and out-averages a carburetor.

This would certainly be true if the rules allowed for intakes that maximized resonance tuning. You could have a lot of fun if the intakes weren't necessarily production-based.

[Bob Holmes]

LOL, DG, you're killing me.

Let's assume that DG is correct and it might be an EMC mill, does that change anyone's opinion. Other than the one already noted.

Speedy, wouldn't you be better off buying the better GT or WC heads? Right from Ford?

[Brian Lohnes]

Whoops, I though we were actually racing this thing against other cars.

[38P]

I'm thinking a winning entry would be around 400 cubes making near 600hp and 600 ft-lbs. But I agree with you on a Gen 1 SBC having a LOT of potential.
"

Hmmm? 1.5 h.p./cube. I kind of thought it would take a tad more to win. I'd only have to pull ~ 425 h.p. out of a Mark VIII to hit that. If memory serves, Richard Holdener carded an easy 426 out of a modestly cammed-up 8.5:1 CR DOHC 4.6 in his book . . . .

Still, really worried that the intake rule will torpedo the whole shootin' match.

[38P]

LOL, DG, you're killing me.

Speedy, wouldn't you be better off buying the better GT or WC heads? Right from Ford?

$4,000 is a pretty low budget. I like the flow numbers on the B-Heads . . . and I've got an out-of-the-box idea for what to do with the IMRC plates on the secondary ports.

[BBR]

I'd like to see a tweaked Ford 6.2L in this.

Actually a 302 (based?) Ford would probably make a very strong showing.

[38P]

How much octane do we get? I assume there's no water injection or alcohol allowed.

[Bob Holmes]

Assume pump gas. You assume correct.

I would go CHI headed Ford except for the claimer limit.