When Is It OK

[dulcich]

I know each of us has our own idea of what's cool, as do I, but I wanted to get an idea of what you guys think is crossing the line on bagging on someone’s ride. I saw the post on the truck/Grand Prix, and the blog that soon followed. I noticed a whole bunch of guys’ dog piling on that machine, and frankly, it really isn't my style. However, I have to wonder if it if uncool to toss it out there and ridicule? To me, that seems rather impolite, especially on a web board with an audience the size of Bangshift.

I remember over a decade ago going to the Mopar Nationals to help cover the event for Mopar Muscle Magazine. I was cruising the grounds with Marko, and we decided to do a story 'Mods You Never Want to Do’ or 'Violations', years before I heard of the 'Violations game' from another well known editor. After a while of this, I bagged a healthy roll of shots. I next went after the 'Dual Hood Scoop' violation, and the perfect mark was coming rolling in the gates. This cat had a Road Runner with an air grabber with a pro stock snorkel riveted right in the middle!

I held him up with a hand signal and he saw the Mopar Muscle shirt and big assed camera and came to a stop. I shot a couple of pictures of the car’s hood and guy opened the door, and out came a dude with no shirt and a healthy mullet. He wanted to thank me for shooting his Road Runner. His girlfriend was sitting in the car, looking over and shooting a beaming smile of appreciation.

Now a true ass hole might have seen that as all the more sweeter a set up. I'm thinking of some East Coast editors that would shoot a full feature just to make a mockery of the car and humiliate the owner. I just said thanks and then we rolled off. I pulled up in the golf card we were riding and asked Marko for his camera. Opened the back door and stripped the freshly exposed Velvia color slide film. Did the same to my camera next. When is it OK to publicly bag on someone’s junk? I'll admit that the Car/Truck custom is a pretty extreme example of questionable taste, but do we really need to feature it here?
-dulcich

[Brian Lohnes]

Steve, good points. With respect to the blog, I really try to use the powers of it for good and not evil purposes, but every now and again, stuff shows up that is just so far beyond the pale I cannot ignore it. We get sent a ton of tips a day from people sending us "violations" or whatever from eBay and Craigslist. Most of these are stuff like, "look at those wheels!". I ignore those as I don't think "normal" modifications that aren't of mainstream or current taste should get bagged on or attacked.

One of my favorite courses that I took in college was about communications and media law. We spent a while talking about the Jacobellis v. Ohio case of 1964 that was about what is or isn't pornography. Famously, US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart wrote in his decision that he could not directly define what pornography was, but (and these are his words), "I know it when I see it." I guess that I use Stewart's test on stuff like that car/truck creation.

I would never set out to shoot a car or gain someone's trust on false pretenses, but at the same time, if you are going to put your stuff on a public forum to sell or display, you are not immune to criticism or opinion.

There are sites out there that whore for clicks by posting content that is questionably related to cars and automobilia. I don't think we're one of those places. When I saw that thing, I felt it was something that needed to be put on the front page because it was pretty damned far out in left field and our readership would be interested in seeing it.

That's just my $.02

Brian

[Barry Donovan]

those are good points. I look for a reason. Not much to say if there is one.

if a hood has a cowl, and you got another hood...doubling it up to gain what you want in height is hardly silly.

the origin of silliness all has a not so silly reason. The air dams dangling today was simply protecting an oil pan of an american car in le mans type racing in the late 60s. look how far it went. chinese roof tops for bumpers.

criticism is good. Not enough of it.

[Deaf Bob]

There is a difference between what Steve did and the craigs list posting...BIG DIFFERENCE
Steve was a photographer for a magazine and the guy thought his car was going to be featured in...Looked at by the best of Mopar guys..
The ad... Well, it's different... is it in any way or shape good? No.. Bad? No.. Not to him... But yes to most of us.. Who made us judge and jury?

How does one sell something like that?

[squirrel]

How will guys ever know they made a blunder, unless someone on the internet is brave enough to point it out to them?

Good point, Steve. It puts People of Walmart in a whole new light.

[skullbucket]

The guy didn't build it to drive at night, its just plain stupid and a waste of time, money (very little) and hell the camera!
Don't buy it, drive it or build it if you don't want commits.

[dulcich]

How will guys ever know they made a blunder, unless someone on the internet is brave enough to point it out to them?

Good point, Steve. It puts People of Walmart in a whole new light.

Jim, if you think about it, it really takes no bravery to point it out. I came to that conclusion head on in the case of that Road Runner all those years ago, and that's why I decided to share that story. When that guy stepped out and I saw the look on his lady friend's face, it suddenly made it personal instead of just an inside joke and arrogance about some inanimate car's modifications.

It would have been all that much easier to feel a sense of superiority to that bare chested and mullet sportin' Mopar brother, and feel justified. It was easy money and in the bag with that roll of film worth nearly a grand to me once converted to edit. However, in reflecting on what I would really be doing, I realized that it just wasn't right.
-dulcich

[JOES66FURY]

The same could be said for any fashion magazine that publicaly puts down actor/actress x,y and z for wearing something on the red carpet. As far as I am concerned if you put it out there for the world to see you have to be man/woman enuff to roll with the punches. If someone shot my beater mopar and it got print...hell...it got print! Good or bad I wouldn't care. To each their own. If we can't disect the happening good or bad in our hobby, well I think there is something wrong. Why does everyone have to play nice? If the dude was a member and posted this in the projects section, I have to wonder how well it would be received? Would we all just ignore it? Would we praise him for doing what he liked? Would we dog pile him and tell him it was a pile of shit? I like to think a little of all of the above. Its out there in the universe, people are gonna say what they think on the net good or bad ..but like dulcich said, it is not personal because its the net...when you have the face time with the guy you're probably less likely to bag on his ride. Its always okay to answer the question, because in the end the builder owner is the owner...its his..he loves it...more power to him...

[squirrel]

Jim, if you think about it, it really takes no bravery to point it out.

I guess my sense of humor is lost on some folks...sorry

[dulcich]

The same could be said for any fashion magazine that publicaly puts down actor/actress x,y and z for wearing something on the red carpet. As far as I am concerned if you put it out there for the world to see you have to be man/woman enuff to roll with the punches. If someone shot my beater mopar and it got print...hell...it got print! Good or bad I wouldn't care. To each their own. If we can't disect the happening good or bad in our hobby, well I think there is something wrong. Why does everyone have to play nice? If the dude was a member and posted this in the projects section, I have to wonder how well it would be received? Would we all just ignore it? Would we praise him for doing what he liked? Would we dog pile him and tell him it was a pile of shit? I like to think a little of all of the above. Its out there in the universe, people are gonna say what they think on the net good or bad ..but like dulcich said, it is not personal because its the net...when you have the face time with the guy you're probably less likely to bag on his ride. Its always okay to answer the question, because in the end the builder owner is the owner...its his..he loves it...more power to him...

Ok, it started as just a casual observation and a question to my fellow Bangshifters on where you draw the line. I've gone back and stared at that car over and over and over, and have to say, to me anyway, put paint on it and it would look much better than any N-body Grand Am I have ever seen!
-dulcich

[dulcich]

I guess my sense of humor is lost on some folks...sorry

Jim, I got where you were coming from on this, I just upped the ante and took it further. But really, after the Road Runner experience and the resultant introspection, I don't feel good about dogging others' rides. I wondered where other members would draw the line.
-dulcich

[SuperBuickGuy]

When is it right to criticize? when the result is neither pretty, nor clever.

bondoing two cars into one falls on the wrong side of the line. Even worse, thinking there is a market for that car - is wrong.

If that same guy brings that car to a show, I agree with you (oh lord) that it would be wrong to look down and pull a joe dirt on him.

Driving a car before it's done, is right. Driving a car that is unsafe is wrong.

Of course, that begs the question.... how can a magazine tell what's right or wrong? As the mag is written at least 3 months before it's in the readers hand, the news is beyond stale...

[dulcich]

When is it right to criticize? when the result is neither pretty, nor clever.

bondoing two cars into one falls on the wrong side of the line. Even worse, thinking there is a market for that car - is wrong.

If that same guy brings that car to a show, I agree with you (oh lord) that it would be wrong to look down and pull a joe dirt on him.

Driving a car before it's done, is right. Driving a car that is unsafe is wrong.

Of course, that begs the question.... how can a magazine tell what's right or wrong? As the mag is written at least 3 months before it's in the readers hand, the news is beyond stale...

SBG, I'm going to try and address that last comment, however it is terribly disjointed in its construction, so it is a rather difficult task. I don't think a magazine, makes a judgment on what is right or wrong, though I concede that the content will often have an influence on trends. As for the second portion of your comment, the majority of magazine content is not directed at providing 'news', and I would not suggest using it as a news source, though in many cases the content provides the best information available on recent developments, often later copied to the web.
-dulcich

[Deaf Bob]

Ok, it started as just a casual observation and a question to my fellow Bangshifters on where you draw the line. I've gone back and stared at that car over and over and over, and have to say, to me anyway, put paint on it and it would look much better than any N-body Grand Am I have ever seen!
-dulcich

Grows on ya, huh?

[Gary 351C]

This is why anybody building a car needs to build the car THEY think is cool. If someone puts together a car or truck that every peice and part is exactly what they want then it doesn't matter what other people say about it, it's THEIR car and they love it. I'm not sure I'd have the balls to walk up to some guy and say "Wow, what an ugly peice of shit you've built". But if someone said that to me I'd just figure we don't have the same taste in cars and not let it bother me. If you like it, cool, if you don't, go build your own junk.