Few thousand miles LS Graphite

[anotheridiot]

So we had a oil pressure issue with our first LS build, decided to build the stroker to learn a little before winter sets in. Started with a clean looking motor, cylinders cleaned up with a ball hone. New rings, new main and rod bearings, cam spun really nicely, most likely should have changed the cam bearings, but live and learn. Anyway, disassembly just looks like graphite lapping compound everywhere. All the coating on the skirts of the pistons is worn off, cam bearings are too soft, scratching easily, but only measuring ..0011 bigger than the new ones. Pushing brushes thru the galleys is not bringing any clogs or sludge. Looks almost like the ARP bolt torquing goo is all over the motor, but this sludge looks metallic. Bearings are scored and just a discoloration in a lot of places. The cylinders look like pistons with skirts were being run, black with shiny areas everywhere, definitely feeling a ridge between black and shiny. I can see it as maybe the babbit from a GM cam bearing since something definitely happened, just seems extreme for a motor that ran for 5 months or so.

[DanStokes]

Did you pressure prime the oiling system before first startup? I wrecked two used engines before I learned that the LS series REALLY need to be prelubed. I was working with LKQ and based on my experience they now require it and will not warrant an engine that has not been prelubed. The damage sounds similar to what happened to the ones I killed.

[anotheridiot]

Did you pressure prime the oiling system before first startup? I wrecked two used engines before I learned that the LS series REALLY need to be prelubed. I was working with LKQ and based on my experience they now require it and will not warrant an engine that has not been prelubed. The damage sounds similar to what happened to the ones I killed.

No pressure priming.The first engine we got from a yard for 1000.We got the 99-00 to easily use the small block bell housing and clutch, even though we still needed to buy a flywheel with the small block bolt pattern for the pressure plate. Pulled that one apart and the crank was junk at the thrust bearing. Took it back thinking I would prove the crank was bad and he said I had to put it back together because he cant even sell it as a core if its apart. Never going that route again. Did you go thru the motor or just install them as used? Thats the block we bored to 4.065 to put the 6.6 pistons and crank in so at least I stopped pining on the thousand dollars I lost since it needed a crank anyway.

We put a high pressure pump in the new one on texas speed advice. We always used high volume over pressure, I sure hope it flowed faster. The other thing that happened with this problem motor was having the coils upside down on the drivers side so the firing order was off. Popped and backfired quite a few times, so could have done additional damage with that problem. Maybe I gotta check to see if the valve seals are still intact.

Thanks for at least suggesting a reason.

[anotheridiot]

Apologies for mess of pictures again.Cam bearing were not changed, discoloration in the pattern in the cylinders and lapped piston skirts is why I call this lapping compound.

[DanStokes]

I was just bolting in the "correct" engine into a Trailblazer SS that belonged to one of my Grandsons. What we (the rep from LKQ and I) worked out is that the internal oil pump can't pick up oil like a distributor-driven pump and, of course, there's no way to spin it up before engine start like with a small block Ford or others. Evidently, they also don't "hold" a prime after sitting for long periods like a salvage engine would. I built a pressure luber from a pressure cooker and there are online plans for building one from PVC pipe. Looking for a pic......

Nope - can't find a pic. But there's a plug on the driver's side front roughly under the front spark plug but in the block. It goes immediately into the oil galley. I went to our local Parker Hannifin dealer and we came up with a fitting that screwed into that port and was tapped for a 1/4 NPT and I built the system from there. Air pressure over the oil works great but just make sure you don't run out of oil in the pressure pot or you have to start all over.

[anotheridiot]

But technically, you are in the same boat every time you do an oil change. You start the engine and wait for the oil pressure needle to move, difference is only oil is in the bearings and not assembly lube. I really dont know what to do with the 401 that has been running a week. I am thinking at a minimum dump the oil to make sure the assembly lube is out of the mix and I guess see if that turned black already.

[tardis454]

I was just bolting in the "correct" engine into a Trailblazer SS that belonged to one of my Grandsons. What we (the rep from LKQ and I) worked out is that the internal oil pump can't pick up oil like a distributor-driven pump and, of course, there's no way to spin it up before engine start like with a small block Ford or others. Evidently, they also don't "hold" a prime after sitting for long periods like a salvage engine would. I built a pressure luber from a pressure cooker and there are online plans for building one from PVC pipe. Looking for a pic......

Here's the Trailblazer SS thread Dan's talking about..

https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/project-cars-update/1179325-trailblazer-ss

Nope - can't find a pic. But there's a plug on the driver's side front roughly under the front spark plug but in the block. It goes immediately into the oil galley. I went to our local Parker Hannifin dealer and we came up with a fitting that screwed into that port and was tapped for a 1/4 NPT and I built the system from there. Air pressure over the oil works great but just make sure you don't run out of oil in the pressure pot or you have to start all over.

Here's the pressure pot he built...

https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/project-cars-update/1179325-trailblazer-ss?p=1185955#post1185955

Pic:

[DanStokes]

Here's the Trailblazer SS thread Dan's talking about..

https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/project-cars-update/1179325-trailblazer-ss

Here's the pressure pot he built...

https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/project-cars-update/1179325-trailblazer-ss?p=1185955#post1185955

Pic:

Woah! Your Google-Fu is strong! Thanks for taking the time to pull that up.

[DanStokes]

The pressure port is shown on page 10. No clue where all my pics of this project have gone - I store them on my desktop on the MAC.

[CTX-SLPR]

https://bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/project-cars-update/2174-project-franken-riviera-1964-buick-riviera?p=404685#post404685

I made an external oiler out of a cheap SBC pump mounted in a 2gal bucket. I just tapped the oil pump outlet for a hose (AN in my case since the oil feed on my V6 is AN) and drilled a drain pan bolt for a return. The hose on the pickup is so it reaches the bottom of the bucket. Had to throw it away during a move since the carrier wouldn't ship it for whatever reason.

[anotheridiot]

401 still has clear oil that you cannot even see on the dipstick, so it will stay in a while longer. DanStokes I still am not sure if you just got a questionable engine or if you did a rebuild before you installed. It sure seems like the chances you take. We pulled the pan and as soon as the thrust bearing cap came out we knew this motor was not going to last long. Also curious about the question whether you do that process with each oil change.

[DanStokes]

401 still has clear oil that you cannot even see on the dipstick, so it will stay in a while longer. DanStokes I still am not sure if you just got a questionable engine or if you did a rebuild before you installed. It sure seems like the chances you take. We pulled the pan and as soon as the thrust bearing cap came out we knew this motor was not going to last long. Also curious about the question whether you do that process with each oil change.

The engines were straight from the donor vehicle, no rebuild done. The idea was to get the TBSS back on the road as cheaply as possible. I failed 2 of them before we figured out the problem and LKQ was great about working with me to figure out what was going wrong, so 3 engines in total. IIRC, the engines all were in the 70,000 to 80,000 mile range which should be fine on an LS.

No need to reprime after a typical oil change as there isn't time for the oil to run out of the pump for the hour or two that it takes to do that job. I don't have a handle on how long it takes for the pump to lose prime but these engine all had been from totals so they had sat in a yard somewhere for however long it took the insurance company to make a decision, then in an auction yard until LKQ bought them, then transport to one of their facilities until somebody bought them, then transportation to me. So all in all, months, maybe a year, of not being run. And yes, the oil in the failed engines looked fine though I suspect the filter and pan were full of crap (I didn't look at my shop though LKQ might have when they got the engines back).

[anotheridiot]

I have a fuel injection cleaner cylinder from OTC 7448 that I used to pressurize my big block just to make sure I did not miss any plugs, so I am pretty sure that would do it. Pulled the 401 apart after about 14o miles.. Same signs of glazing starting, scratching and wear from the piston skirts. But trying to think about combustion physics with these direct injection pistons and skirts running .625 out the bottom of the cylinders,there are far too many things to blame. So far I have seen things like staying away from synthetics for the first oil, but the third engine builder I really trust says it looks like there was not enough piston to wall clearance from the machine shop that machined these bores to exactly 4.065 when we supplied the piston. But LT heads have valves swapped positions and is u channel reverse dome for the direct injection made me wonder about combustion physics. Either way, different wear pattern that still ate .002 along the top 12 and 6 skirt sides of the cylinder. WE had windage tray interference causing harmonics and the number 2 bottom rod bearing fell out of the rod, seemed like it was about to spin.
So it seems like there are plenty of other break in things I did wrong other than the no priming deal that I am accepting. So now its making these two blocks round again, getting LS pistons for the 401, or finding a 6.2 and leaving it the hell alone. I still cannot see buying a used motor without at lease checking mains or rings, but without figuring out if its just the oil or a combination of synthetic oil not allowing the rings to seat and instead wearing down the skirt sides, I cant figure another way. I hate that now it feels like a cop out to buying some 140-180K motor and not even checking the bearings.
Either way, we used the Total seal piston ring blue lubricant in the 6.0 that did not seat properly, used permatex assembly lube and clevite bearing lube on the 401, Pretty sure no matter what we use will be washed away with the pressure of oil priming anyway, so maybe just go straight 30 break in oil next time. My head has been spinning with these performance rods being 6.125 long like its some kind of upgrade from 6.098 if we rebuild the 401, seeing if I can keep the cylinders round with my Lisle 15000, set up on my milling machine. Might as well start off with one foot in the grave.

[DanStokes]

I have a fuel injection cleaner cylinder from OTC 7448 that I used to pressurize my big block just to make sure I did not miss any plugs, so I am pretty sure that would do it. Pulled the 401 apart after about 14o miles.. Same signs of glazing starting, scratching and wear from the piston skirts. But trying to think about combustion physics with these direct injection pistons and skirts running .625 out the bottom of the cylinders,there are far too many things to blame. So far I have seen things like staying away from synthetics for the first oil, but the third engine builder I really trust says it looks like there was not enough piston to wall clearance from the machine shop that machined these bores to exactly 4.065 when we supplied the piston. But LT heads have valves swapped positions and is u channel reverse dome for the direct injection made me wonder about combustion physics. Either way, different wear pattern that still ate .002 along the top 12 and 6 skirt sides of the cylinder. WE had windage tray interference causing harmonics and the number 2 bottom rod bearing fell out of the rod, seemed like it was about to spin.
So it seems like there are plenty of other break in things I did wrong other than the no priming deal that I am accepting. So now its making these two blocks round again, getting LS pistons for the 401, or finding a 6.2 and leaving it the hell alone. I still cannot see buying a used motor without at lease checking mains or rings, but without figuring out if its just the oil or a combination of synthetic oil not allowing the rings to seat and instead wearing down the skirt sides, I cant figure another way. I hate that now it feels like a cop out to buying some 140-180K motor and not even checking the bearings.
Either way, we used the Total seal piston ring blue lubricant in the 6.0 that did not seat properly, used permatex assembly lube and clevite bearing lube on the 401, Pretty sure no matter what we use will be washed away with the pressure of oil priming anyway, so maybe just go straight 30 break in oil next time. My head has been spinning with these performance rods being 6.125 long like its some kind of upgrade from 6.098 if we rebuild the 401, seeing if I can keep the cylinders round with my Lisle 15000, set up on my milling machine. Might as well start off with one foot in the grave.

Sending you my best Juju! You, clearly, have dug way deeper into this than we did. As I said, the goal was to get the TBSS back on the road for the Grandson. It actually worked OK until the trans failed a few months later.

[anotheridiot]

Sending you my best Juju! You, clearly, have dug way deeper into this than we did. As I said, the goal was to get the TBSS back on the road for the Grandson. It actually worked OK until the trans failed a few months later.

no matter what we do or how much we spend on parts, as soon as it fires, something else that should have been done gets added. Got a supposed running 6.2, need to swap pans to fit in the Camaro, at that point its deciding whether to even take a cap off. Swap lifters so heads need to come off, swap cam away from the VVT camshaft, timing chain has to come off to swap from the 1 bolt cam gear anyway. It already seems like we are going to go in too far.