Holley EFI - what you should be told

[SuperBuickGuy]

Just a bit of an insight. Not all harnesses within a product line are the same.

Example, my Terminator X only has 1 programming plug. At some point, Holley started putting 2 (and paradoxically, my much older Sniper system has 2).

Point is this - when it comes time to program, you'll find more of these issues - they can be solved if you're looking for them - but if you don't... you may have sub-optimal results.

Oh and

HOLLEY WARRANTY FOR ELECTRONICS IS 60 DAYS. Power up your system the day you get it with the display computer attached. Never imagined it was less than a year... but it is, and it's been a gotcha for a lot of people including me.

WITH THAT SAID, Holley really did me a solid and replaced a broken part for free long after the warranty expired. I was told it was a one-shot deal - so do ask them for help.

That is all.

[anotheridiot]

We got on the boat early, on the waiting list for the sniper for each of their months of delays. By the time we had to send the system back for the third time, they just shipped me a whole new unit and did not even ask for the problem to be sent back. We needed to get one of the systems that they show on Motortrend, put in the displacement and go drive the car, go do burnouts.....
When we let it tune itself, our mileage went down to 5.We got 7.5 with a carburetor. Easier starts, sure, more fun? questionable.Tend to not want to hammer it as much when you have to go to the gas station twice a week.
This got us away to Aces sequential, probably should have paid the extra for the holley system, but we got their free ignition system with it too, which, by the way we cannot run because it runs better without it.
He wants to manage the LS with the terminator system, really dont know where I stand on that one now.

[SuperBuickGuy]

We got on the boat early, on the waiting list for the sniper for each of their months of delays. By the time we had to send the system back for the third time, they just shipped me a whole new unit and did not even ask for the problem to be sent back. We needed to get one of the systems that they show on Motortrend, put in the displacement and go drive the car, go do burnouts.....
When we let it tune itself, our mileage went down to 5.We got 7.5 with a carburetor. Easier starts, sure, more fun? questionable.Tend to not want to hammer it as much when you have to go to the gas station twice a week.
This got us away to Aces sequential, probably should have paid the extra for the holley system, but we got their free ignition system with it too, which, by the way we cannot run because it runs better without it.
He wants to manage the LS with the terminator system, really dont know where I stand on that one now.

none of them are perfect, what gotchas did you find with the Aces system?

[anotheridiot]

none of them are perfect, what gotchas did you find with the Aces system?

First and Fore most, tech support, which they claim is improving. What goes with that is parts. Look, if I suspect a bad MAP sensor, I would rather spend 50.00 to replace it and see if it runs better. Instead after 3 or 4 conversations, missed calls, end up having to find a sensor that fit, then use a vacuum gauge and meter to be able to put the calibration in the system. Just going to the gas station after dicking around with it is 50 bucks. We had a bad harness, supposedly, after we sent it in to get tested. Came back with the new connection for the new map sensor, with an extension harness that went to the old map sensor that I did not trust anyway. So you put the new update in as required and all your data is gone. You start from scratch again. That was the point where, you have this new TMAP sensor connector on the harness, you have the new update, shouldnt we use the new TMAP sensor since that calibration should be in the system? ITs in the program, I can simply click on it, but I cannot get the part. Never got the IAT sensor at the beginning, so had to find one that the plug fit and put that calibration in too. I dont want to have a problem, park the car, and wait a week, even if they want to throw more parts at me. I would rather have an option to purchase the actual parts. MAP, IAT, IAC that always went bad on the snipers. There was no option.
Along side that, we wanted to utilize the plug for the fuel pressure sending unit so you can see if you are losing pressure over 4000 RPM's (like we currently are) and got no option. Buy one from a parts store (that fit again) put the calibration in and the car does not start. Unplug it and it runs. We are also back to just using their distributor and coil without the box like I previously noted. So I dont know if there is just far too much "borrowed" from a holley system that they are worried that people will start digging in and changing parts, but when you do not offer replacement parts, and the sense to me is they expect us to have them give us new parts instead of sell new parts, (even after I offered to pay for said parts) its a big gotcha.

So now he made this awesome air intake system since we just had one inlet tube, it now comes off from both fender wells, and he is looking at the 6.0 LS we got to put in the HHR. Its either that or seeing if we can get a terminator X and run the Aces system off that.

[SuperBuickGuy]

You reminded me - do watch for stray voltages. My tank wasn't completely grounded and that made my fuel pressure sender go batty.

I've had similar cusstomer service problems with FiTech. An example, I have 3 throttle brackets, 2 are the same (and wrong).... but they SWORE that they were sending me the correct one.... I posted the email thread when I was dealing with that...

[anotheridiot]

You reminded me - do watch for stray voltages. My tank wasn't completely grounded and that made my fuel pressure sender go batty.

I've had similar cusstomer service problems with FiTech. An example, I have 3 throttle brackets, 2 are the same (and wrong).... but they SWORE that they were sending me the correct one.... I posted the email thread when I was dealing with that...

It is really not asking much to be able to talk to someone who is smarter than me, who does not expect that I have all the answers. Why would I ask the question?

The Edelbrock e street was the best out of the box system, ran great, learned well, but you had no chance to change anything. That was back when this all started and you were supposed to send your info in and they would send you a tune to upload that would work. Ended up Edelbrock had no way to read or do anything to those computers. Passed on alot of pro flo systems because of that, but then aces came along and after holley kept force feeding fuel and getting worse mileage than a carburetor, I figured we were going on a bigger boat with the same issues if we went to holley. Probably should have paid the extra money and stuck with Holley.

[SuperBuickGuy]

It is really not asking much to be able to talk to someone who is smarter than me, who does not expect that I have all the answers. Why would I ask the question?

The Edelbrock e street was the best out of the box system, ran great, learned well, but you had no chance to change anything. That was back when this all started and you were supposed to send your info in and they would send you a tune to upload that would work. Ended up Edelbrock had no way to read or do anything to those computers. Passed on alot of pro flo systems because of that, but then aces came along and after holley kept force feeding fuel and getting worse mileage than a carburetor, I figured we were going on a bigger boat with the same issues if we went to holley. Probably should have paid the extra money and stuck with Holley.

the Sniper system still has that problem - they have a corporate mindset that a/f needs to be 14.7... no matter how many changes you make, no matter how many tables you change* - inside the system is the "you have to have a learning table variance of at least 10% (and set to 50% at the factory). What happens is you get it running right but daily changes in temperatures allows the system to change the tables - and it gets VERY VERY wildly off from where you set it. Then you set it again.... then it does it again.... Even Terminator X seems to still have that inherent flaw - I've been show that I can 'fix' that but that remains to be seen and it uses the same basic inputs as the Sniper system).

Back to real work, One of the reasons I took the Sniper system off was over time the system would lean itself out - then you'd have to relearn the tables to get the car to run right.... talk about frustrating.

I'm starting to look towards either Megasquirt's system or Haltech - Probably won't change my Corvette's system again, but will store a good tune in my computer and reflash back to it if it starts playing the Sniper game... and I am actually starting to think about the system on the 430 I'm building for my Buick....


and I get that the majority of the buyers out there want a system that is as plug and play as they can possibly get.... I'm looking for the systems that say "it's all on you"

*and here's the deal, I want a gospel table - once it's set the system will never outside its parameters - sure it can change for the weather but when you turn the key off, those changes go away and it learns again. This is opposed to now, when you shut it off that gospel table is created at the moment you turn the key off...

[anotheridiot]

the Sniper system still has that problem - they have a corporate mindset that a/f needs to be 14.7... no matter how many changes you make, no matter how many tables you change* - inside the system is the "you have to have a learning table variance of at least 10% (and set to 50% at the factory). What happens is you get it running right but daily changes in temperatures allows the system to change the tables - and it gets VERY VERY wildly off from where you set it. Then you set it again.... then it does it again.... Even Terminator X seems to still have that inherent flaw - I've been show that I can 'fix' that but that remains to be seen and it uses the same basic inputs as the Sniper system).

Back to real work, One of the reasons I took the Sniper system off was over time the system would lean itself out - then you'd have to relearn the tables to get the car to run right.... talk about frustrating.

I'm starting to look towards either Megasquirt's system or Haltech - Probably won't change my Corvette's system again, but will store a good tune in my computer and reflash back to it if it starts playing the Sniper game... and I am actually starting to think about the system on the 430 I'm building for my Buick....


and I get that the majority of the buyers out there want a system that is as plug and play as they can possibly get.... I'm looking for the systems that say "it's all on you"

*and here's the deal, I want a gospel table - once it's set the system will never outside its parameters - sure it can change for the weather but when you turn the key off, those changes go away and it learns again. This is opposed to now, when you shut it off that gospel table is created at the moment you turn the key off...

exactly. The best advice I ever got was AFR is just a number. If your car runs right at 12.5, then use 12.5, if it is 15, then 15. That Gospel tune would be good just for that reason. I wish the sniper system went lean on us, it just constantly went fat. But at least you could go back to a tune. With Aces, its upload the newest revision to the software, not the update, but the updated version. Once you have it, you cannot go back to the one that worked that you got used to. Most updates add different tables, or finally, some real tables, more than a 5x5 or 10x10 box that lets you only adjust those places. If you happen to have a MAP with calibrations, there are usually 15-20 lines, not 5. So putting a calibration in back when the program allowed five only let us enter 5 of those, and somehow, it was never equal, like find absolute middle, then split the difference between the two halfs where math is involved. Thats why we ended up with the meter and vacuum gauge, but when MAP is basically the heartbeat of the system, its something you definitely want correct.. Sure seemed like being able to buy a replacement is a better answer. These programmers think they are fixing all your problems, when it is just making their "intelligence" change what you have learned.

I wanted to start with Megasquirt, just guess my son thought it was old and obsolete, sometime it applies to more than just stuff. I get it when you look at kits that you have to solder together. But you cannot just let these proven working products go.. You think you go closed loop and the computer wont move and it still dances because of the 02 sensor adjusting fuel. You leave it in open loop and you are allowing it to do what it is going to do by itself anyway. So gospel loop, there is an answer. Just feel like the system wants to work in god mode.

So I commend Aces from trying to get into Holleys market. Hell, our first sniper got delayed almost a year, probably just patent attorney, but maybe just because there were still flaws we ended up finding.

[anotheridiot]

Well, just finished putting in the Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump, I guess we see how bad the tables are going to be now that its going to get a more consistent flow of fuel.

[anotheridiot]

So I am guessing we have more than 450 horsepower at 4000 RPM's (lol) since the Spectra Premium retrofit EFI tank pump, is supposed to handle that. Says the stock pump is equivalent of Delco EP381, high pressure pump, 120 psi shut off pressure at 55 gph meant to operate between 45-55 psi. At 45 PSi the flow rate is 26 GPM. Tested to work up to 450 hp.
255 pump is 67.36 gallons per hour, 340 is almost 90, so probably took two steps, but are good to go if he wants to run E85 and push 30% more fuel. AT 45 psi, this puts out over 300 lph or 83 gph.
So step one for anyone wanting to do this is get a high performance fuel pump and save yourself years of aggravation. Even was able to plug the box back in.