LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

[88 Dippy]

could this work? i think it could but that does nto mean much lol


what i want to do is use a LS1 PCM and wiring harness from a camaro or firebird (cheap and easy to find) to run my olds 350 i am working on.

in my brain it says it should the PCM realy does not care what it is connected to just as long as it gets all the signals it wants. i know it will not run 100% but that is what HP tuners is for.

only problems i am seeing is how to get the coils to fire. i will need a crank trigger. and the distributer could be modifed in to a cam sensor to keep the sequental fuel injection instead of batch fire.


ideas? and i an idiot? is there and easier computer to use?

only reason i want a factory computer is i all ready have the HP tuners

[91CCFirebird]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

They do it

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/24x.aspx

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

Can you modify a distributor to get the resolution the PCM expects on a cam sensor? I don't know how many teeth a LS cam has.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

Firing order is the biggest concern with a Gen III/IV usually. The cam sensor is a hall effect trigger switch I'm pretty sure so it would be possible to rig up a flying magnet type of single pulse inside of a distributor body. The crank sensor could be mounted to the outside of the balancer like a lot of people do with the EDIS wheels, most balancers have enough room on the backside to put it back there and rig the sensor up to read it. Beyond that most of the sensors should be easy to swap or edit out. Adding knock sensors would be tricky so I might consider disabling that till you know you're running fine on a basic tune with no knock and sneak up on the sensitivity threshold for those.

All in all I think the harness would be a good source of wire for an EFI swap but you're probably better off going with an aftermarket ECM like an MSII or MSIII than trying to adapt an Gen III/IV onto it. This is coming from some related experience getting a 4.1L classic Buick V6 running using an OBDII 3800 V6 EFI system. I got it to work because the EFI system is from an evolution of the host motor but there was still some serious finagling in the computer to get all the un needed stuff disabled and tons upon tons of un needed wire in the harness.

[88 Dippy]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

They do it

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/24x.aspx

cool i will read that.

Can you modify a distributor to get the resolution the PCM expects on a cam sensor? I don't know how many teeth a LS cam has.

no idea. i just got the idea from my old high school teacher. he is getting a gen 1 SBC to run on a LS1 PCM. only using the coil packs though he is keeping it carbed for his Class. (it's in his dragster)

Firing order is the biggest concern with a Gen III/IV usually. The cam sensor is a hall effect trigger switch I'm pretty sure so it would be possible to rig up a flying magnet type of single pulse inside of a distributor body. The crank sensor could be mounted to the outside of the balancer like a lot of people do with the EDIS wheels, most balancers have enough room on the backside to put it back there and rig the sensor up to read it. Beyond that most of the sensors should be easy to swap or edit out. Adding knock sensors would be tricky so I might consider disabling that till you know you're running fine on a basic tune with no knock and sneak up on the sensitivity threshold for those.

All in all I think the harness would be a good source of wire for an EFI swap but you're probably better off going with an aftermarket ECM like an MSII or MSIII than trying to adapt an Gen III/IV onto it. This is coming from some related experience getting a 4.1L classic Buick V6 running using an OBDII 3800 V6 EFI system. I got it to work because the EFI system is from an evolution of the host motor but there was still some serious finagling in the computer to get all the un needed stuff disabled and tons upon tons of un needed wire in the harness.

oh yeah not expecting any thing easy. i have used MS before i found it realy limited compared to what i was able to do with a stock GM PCM with HP tuners and the DHP powrtuner

[dieselgeek]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

i have used MS before i found it realy limited compared to what i was able to do with a stock GM PCM with HP tuners and the DHP powrtuner

Something is very, very wrong then. A complete standalone like an MS system has far more broad tuning capabilities than the LS PCM. It has fewer "emissions features" that you wouldn't use on a non-LS, "hotrod" application.

FOr example, there's a limit to injector size. You can't drive low impedance injectors with the LS PCM (unless you ghetto-rig a pack of resistors, which then kill your opening time and fueling accuracy) - you can't trigger any external systems (nitrous, boost control, etc.). Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a fun idea, however - the benefit to HPT is simply that it allows you to NOT have to "install" a third party EMS - a huge benefit indeed! but since you're planning on going through the trouble of making it work - I'd argue that a true standalone would be a far better choice. Especially if you're looking to make more power with more aggressive cam, heads, exhaust etc. What HPT lets you do is "nudge" the factory tune - but it in no way has the broad range flexibility of a standalone.
(i.e., if this approach was easy, there would be no market for standalone EFI).

However, CTX_Sleeper has approached it this way and his car runs, for the most part (I think he's working on other issues at the moment).

Beware those who will likely chime in about how awesome HPT is. Just make sure they've actually USED it first. There are lots of guys who buy it, get confused, don't use it, but they won't tell you that they don't know what they're doing with it... lol


Cliff's notes: I think it would be harder to swap an OEM PCM onto your engine than a standalone.

[88 Dippy]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

oh yes that was all personal opinion and that also invalved MS 1 way back in the day. (i assume it is better know but it would still be a learning curve for me to be comfertable with it)

i all ready have the HPT and used it on my 12 second FWD GP (yes it was slow better then the factory 16 second run though).

the enigne is only going to be making around 350-400 hp about the stock output of the LS1 and LS6. i will also only be running the coil packs at first then add in the fuel later.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

Do the aftermarket system, my car runs (oil pressure issues, unrelated to the EFI system) with an HPTuners tune but it's mainly since the engine is an older version of the one the EFI system came off of and 75% of the sensors crossed between the LC2 Turbo6 and the L67 Supercharged 3800.
I wouldn't do a V8 swap with the LS1 PCM. If I was going tweeked OEM, it'd be a Ford EEIC IV (sp?) system since it's far more "mapped" than the LS1 PCM or if you want to use HPTuners, a Vortec 98+ 5.0/5.7.

[88 Dippy]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

it's also a money thing. i do not have the money to get a diffrent system to use

[JoeyG]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

I wouldn't do a V8 swap with the LS1 PCM. If I was going tweeked OEM, it'd be a Ford EEIC IV (sp?) system since it's far more "mapped" than the LS1 PCM or if you want to use HPTuners, a Vortec 98+ 5.0/5.7.

You could use a 96+ Vortec pcm and have use of distributor and ease of programming through EFI-Live (my preference) or HP Tuners. But like Dieselgeek said the actual flexibility of a MS system is very inticing. But what do I know, I've only used all 3 that I listed.

[fabricatordave]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

look at this stuff they have it figured out

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

look at this stuff they have it figured out

???

[fabricatordave]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

look at this stuff they have it figured out

http://www.eficonnection.com/24x/default.htm

oops

[Tommygun]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

I have helped with a LS1 PCM swap into a GMC Typhoon

[88 Dippy]

Re: LS1 PCM running some that is not a LS1

never even thought of using a vortec computer :P

of course now i no longer have HPT. do to lack of money i had to sell it so this whole project is basicly dead :D