Emergency response - what do you do?

[SuperBuickGuy]

You paid attention to my other post about 1st aid kits, you've got your 1st aid kit in your car and....

You're driving down the road and out of the corner of your eye you see this guy flying through the air.

what do you do? try to answer in order. Answers will come in a bit....

Your answers could save a life - so what do you do?

[tardis454]

Call Randolph Mantooth...

[Barry Donovan]

nothing gushing, moving his neck and back, verbally responsive, can feel his legs..
just call an ambulance.

The most hands off scenario is the neck or back injury. Wait for the pros.

The worst I encountered was a guy with a 3+ hinged leg insisting on crawling off into the woods. A dead body was in the same car. Analyzing hard it unnecessary.
Being nice wasn't working. I yelled like I did in the military and he came back to the road. pitch black all we could here was sticks snapping to him trying to crawl off and die...and angry. He wasn't being friendly.
When shock asks for a blanket or feeling cold or hot..or pain, that is good.

So there ya have it. Sometimes you have to punch a victim in the face and yell at them.

[Dan Barlow]

I'll take a stab at it .
Call 911 . Might as well get them on there way. Your going to need them.
Check for a pulse first .
If no pulse compress the chest 30 times . This needs to be very firm and pretty quick . Check for a pulse . If no pulse still , continue till help arrives . Also if you are talented after each thirty compressions blow into their mouth after making sure the air passage is as straight as possible 3 times making sure the chest rises not the stomach . Although this isn't completely necessary as the compressions will move some air .

[sueunit]

Call 911. Immobilize him. Where are you going with this, serious or sick? That makes a difference in what I do next.

[JamesMayberryIII]

need more info before I reply past calling 911 and checking for pulse..
like is he or she on speed dial to an amb chasing lawyer

[sueunit]

I guess the point is, this is ALL the information we have at the time, so what do we do? Why is that woman taking his gloves and handing them off? Okay, I call 911, immobilize, and yes, check for CONTINUED breathing, since he was breathing when I got there. I wait for 911 response to arrive. If he stops breathing while we are waiting, we're in trouble. Guess I will have to make sure his airway is clear, administer rescue breaths, and provide for circulation of that breath by CPR if needed. Danger of that to him is that any of that might kill him, but if rescue isn't arriving in time, he will die anyway without oxygen and blood flow. Danger to me of action is wrongful death lawsuit, I guess. But it is what I would do.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Call 911. Immobilize him. Where are you going with this, serious or sick? That makes a difference in what I do next.

you tell me, what are you going to do next to determine the answer to your very good question...

[RockJustRock]

I get annoyed. The rule for lane splitting in CA is no more than 15 MPH faster than traffic. 15 more than stopped is 15. I'd call 911 and request a helicopter because traffic is grid locked, unless the guy seems O.K. A good set of leathers like that might have saved him already. Ride like a racer, dress like one. Technically this wasn't a lane split, but still..... common sense?

[JamesMayberryIII]

you tell me, what are you going to do next to determine the answer to your very good question...

And this is why people get sued, as we non trained non medical type can harm a person not knowing just how bad a person IS hurt..
Yes I know all about the good samaritan laws.. and sorry the loop holes are big enough to drive a ups box truck through.. Nothing like going out of your way to save a life to have to only spend tens of thousands in court because of it..

My good Samaritan goes to 911 then look for a pulse.. and breathing.. cpr if needed as I have cert in that.. if he/she needs to be moved, the house/building/vehicle better be ready to burn to the ground, fall off a cliff or fall down.. otherwise I'm not moving them.. been there done that.. only to have to explain myself to a court.. over and over and over again.
explaining myself and my actions to the courts was bad enough, but having to do it to/for the 1st responders,, that took ten minutes+ (2nd responders) after volunteers shored up most of those harmed that could be helped.. was just evil.. we where made to feel 2" tall. and then totally forgot about after the fact.. as those that took forever to get there got the "thanks" ..

[SuperBuickGuy]

I love non-lawyers telling lawyers what the law is.

Good Samaritan laws = 2 things. 1) you cannot be sued for acts done within your training, and 2) if you don't help, then you get sued for failure to render aid.

You're stuck you stopped and someone is hurt - you're not a sociopath - so you want to help. So back to the original question.... what do you do?

So far we have
1) either you or you get someone to call 911, preferably someone who knows where you are (but with enhanced 911, it's not as important)
2) check for your safety
3) check for signs of life

So the guy is awake, moving and grasping his knee (like in the video).

4) you identify yourself and ask who he is. "I am ______, I'm trained in 1st aid and I'd like to help; can I help you?" (now you can't get sued because what you do, as long as it's within your training, is permissive. Best of all, his consent would be videotaped)
5) move to the patient's level - it really is as disconcerting as the video shows to have all these people standing around you - and ask him where it hurts, if he feels any wet spots, and start the head assessment (equal pupils, knowledge of who/where/when)
6) tell the patient everything you're going to do BEFORE you do it.
7) never say "I've seen worse" "oh that looks bad" or any other words like that - you wouldn't believe unless you've seen it in person, how negatively such words can sound in the patient. Be positive, answer the questions of the person, feign not hearing while you come up with an appropriate response. Always close with "it will be okay"

The rest from here depends on how injured the subject is. If the guy is moving about, you put him in a position that is most comfortable.I kind of laughed because I've made the mistake the person made in the video - telling him to lay down without an actual reason to have him lay in the middle of the street. Where ever you put the patient, that is where they're going to be for at least 6 minutes (average response time) - so it should be somewhere safe and comfortable.

but you can be assured by your observations
- he doesn't have a broken spine but keeping him from wild movements is a good idea
- he's not grasping his mid-section, so he'll survive long enough to get to the hospital (no need for emergency surgery - aren't you glad?)
- he stopped grabbing his leg so you can safely move him to the curb. Invariably, when someone is hurt and traffic is still moving around them some lookie-Lou will drive where their eyes are looking and nearly run you over. Active streets make poor triage facilities.


And in all - don't be a sociopath, get training and practice that training.

[squirrel]

kind of a sociopathic public service message, eh?

[SuperBuickGuy]

well, we must let the sociopaths know they're sociopaths

the irony is kind of funny - his point is don't help because you'll get sued. of course, the whole point of good sam laws is to prevent people from being sued... which means he's encouraging others to be sociopaths.

and finally, I have an image of his "help" because I've seen hundreds they race to a scene with no training at all, but bully and buffalo their way to the front - causing even more damage then the accident did to the victim. then they get all upset when the 1st responders tell him to go away. He doesn't, so then they do a bit of corrective attitude adjustment to them. they then run to the internet crying to never help anyone ever because the firefighters made him cry.

[squirrel]

I'm doing my best!

[98ciHemi]

Assuming he's consenting to basic treatment. Tell bystanders to block traffic and call 911. Do my best to convince him to stay still. Leave the helmet on, carefully elevate legs if he passes a basic spine assessment, treat for shock. Keep them talking. Bags on either side of the head to help stabilize spine. This looks like a city, so unless he's really bleeding, I doubt I'm grabbing anything from my kit except for rubber gloves and the kit to use as a pad. I'd probably break out the flares and possibly try and get a car in a barricade position if I got through the above steps and there were no emergency vehicles on scene. Even though I can treat farther than that, it's not worth it. Wait for the pros with the proper equipment.

I disagree with moving him. As long as traffic can be adequately diverted, I'll wait for a backboard to move him. It's not a combat zone, it's not the middle of no where. He's perfectly accessible where he is when the medics get there. 6-10 minutes is a short time. A ruptured organ or spinal injury hiding behind shock is a lifetime.