EZ-EFI, Atomic EFI or ??

[dieselgeek]

As a person that has built a MS

And reminder, you didn't "build" a megasquirt, you bought a "plug & play" kit that requires you to add a couple resistors and diodes to pre-drilled locations.

[TC]

Meanwhile, what percentage of "tuning" is adjusting air fuel ratio? maybe 15-20%.

Well if you watched the video you'd know that they took 50% out of the fuel table and it had no problem correcting for it......

Like I said either way, funny thing is I spent all this money on this MS unit for that Thunderbird and then find out someone else makes a board that plugs into the factor ECM and allows me to tune the ECM that way and I won't have to delete a bunch of input/outputs that the factory ecm has that the MS doesn't support.......

The real question here is how much time do you want to put into running EFI, because with and Atomic or EZ-EFI you can be up and running in 1/2 a day and your car will run 99% as good as any tune it yourself efi system.......

You guys just have to remember some people just want to drive their cars, and not have to mess with them ......

[TC]

And reminder, you didn't "build" a megasquirt, you bought a "plug & play" kit that requires you to add a couple resistors and diodes to pre-drilled locations.

I think this thread shows that it was a lot more than that....

http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showthread.php/31879-MegaSquirt-For-Dummies......?highlight=megasquirt

[dieselgeek]

I think this thread shows that it was a lot more than that....

http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showt...ght=megasquirt

Let's get some facts straight between this and your last post:

(1) the "board" someone makes that lets you tune a factory computer is more difficult to use than a megasquirt, as the factory computer has far more tables and enrichments than a basic megasquirt. Don't go quoting something as "easier" when you have no experience with either, that's why people don't like coming to these forums - because you post like an expert but have no clue what you're talking about.

(2) You never mentioned that you couldn't understand the software, but you didn't ask anyone for help with it. People here including myself can supply you with a complete tune for your MS that would start and run your engine, but you didn't ask for it. The bottom line is, for nearly ten years you've been on here preaching your expertise but you have yet to finish even one single project you're working on. That's a personal problem, not a megasquirt or Atomic or EZ-EFI problem.

(3) there's not a single input or output that your EEC-IV computer requires in your car that your megasquirt doesn't cover. The lesson everyone here should learn is "If you're lazy and not willing to read the instructions then you should expect to be a failure" - you made a good example of this.

(4) the bottom line is, you don't do EFI, you've never installed EFI, you are afraid to tune EFI, so why are you even in this thread at all?

Please, just stop using valid Q&A threads as your personal space to try and impress us.

[mike343sharpstick]

So to brinig this back to the basics, as I think about just getting started a few things are required no matter the direction I take.

1. As you stated Scott, "First and foremost you need to have a good 12v power and charging system, easily evaluated before making the changeover if you do like Squirrel and set up your EFI system first just for data logging and observation of your charging system."
That should be easy enough to identify and prepare.

2. And any of the solutions need an upgraded fuel delivery system; I’ll start with that too. I have actually been planning this for a while, I am going to start with a reproduction stock fuel tank, and fabricate an in-tank high pressure pump and return line setup. If anyone has recomendations on articles, and/or spacific pumps and filters I would be interested in that info. I have seen a number of this type of projects on the web and in magazines, so I know it's a common task.

3. Oxygen sensor mounting, simple stuff.

[dieselgeek]

4. make sure there are no exhaust leaks upstream or downstream of the o2 sensor

[Matt Cramer]

For fuel pumps, I'm partial to the Walbro line - they're cheap, you can get them big enough to feed a healthy V8, and they hold up pretty well. There's probably some good stuff you can get from Airtex too, but they seem harder to find specs on.

[Beagle]

not an airtex fan. Do not leave fuel in them for six months unused. Walbro or Bosch get my vote. Walbro in particular, they've been dealing with all manners of crappy gas from their weedeater carburetor offerings for about a million years.

Hey Matt! long time. Good to see you.

[TC]

DG you can make up all the excuses in the world, and talk me down as much as you want. But the fact remains the same, Mega Squirt is just not as easy as you try to make it out to be....... And ya maybe I am a bit apprehensive about messing with fuel tables, because on a turbo motor you do the wrong thing and it could blow stuff up in a hurry, but I guess when your playing with other people's money, it doesn't matter if you blow it up or not........

Also did you read the OP's first post, this is a stock engine, nothing fancy, the Atomic will be fine, and he'll still benefit with the EFI when it comes down to cold start conditions and I'm sure he'll see an increase in fuel economy......

Fact is EFI is EFI no matter who's controller your using and for 99% of us finding that last 1% of power by programming the engine ourselves just isn't worth the time or effort, when we can just go out and slap a system on a car Saturday morning and be driving the car by Saturday night....... I will be the first to admit Mega Squirt is not for everyone, and you should stop misinforming people that it is......

[dieselgeek]

DG you can make up all the excuses in the world, and talk me down as much as you want. But the fact remains the same, Mega Squirt is just not as easy as you try to make it out to be....... And ya maybe I am a bit apprehensive about messing with fuel tables, because on a turbo motor you do the wrong thing and it could blow stuff up in a hurry, but I guess when your playing with other people's money, it doesn't matter if you blow it up or not........

Please link me to where I say ANY efi system is easy? Meanwhile, YOU are the one that pre-bragged how awesome your EFI tuning skills were going to be. YOU are the one that told me how many times "EFI tuning is so easy" - you never heard me say it's easy. I told you that it takes someone who can follow instructions and who is willing to finish a job. I look around and I see a ton of EFI users here who didn't brag about how awesome of Hotrodders they were, they followed directions and have no problems tuning EFI.

Maybe it's YOU who should stop misleading people when you tell us that you're some kind of hotrodding badass. I know ten year old kids who assembled their own MS and got farther than you did. Because instead of getting on the internet and pretending that they're some kind of Expert like you do, they shut their mouths, read the instructions, and succeed.

Also did you read the OP's first post, this is a stock engine, nothing fancy, the Atomic will be fine, and he'll still benefit with the EFI when it comes down to cold start conditions and I'm sure he'll see an increase in fuel economy......

Fact is EFI is EFI no matter who's controller your using and for 99% of us finding that last 1% of power by programming the engine ourselves just isn't worth the time or effort, when we can just go out and slap a system on a car Saturday morning and be driving the car by Saturday night....... I will be the first to admit Mega Squirt is not for everyone, and you should stop misinforming people that it is......

Fact is? at what point do you stop saying those words, It's pretty clear that you've never succeeded with ANY kind of EFI system - or any car project since you've been on here blathering about your expertise - you need to stop saying "Fact Is" because people only know Fact from experience. You have no experience, you don't have any Facts to share, period.

You want to know a Fact? here's one: "TC pretends to be an expert but he can't finish a single task"

Don't bother with a response, N O B O D Y takes your posts seriously because you are not any kind of hot rodder, you're just a poser trying to act like some kind of badass. You probably can't change a set of sparkplugs without help from the Autozone guy.

[Matt Cramer]

I make a living selling MegaSquirt, and I'll be the first to say it's not for everyone. I think Scott is saying the same thing here, just that he's saying that in his experience the self tuning systems don't seem to offer much over a good carburetor, and that if you want EFI, it's kind of a go big or go home thing - FAST's XFI system isn't much harder to set up than their EZ-EFI, for instance.

[dieselgeek]

FAST's XFI system isn't much harder to set up than their EZ-EFI, for instance.

I agree with what you posted except this part. I end up helping a lot of guys get through the Configuration stage on their FAST XFI systems. You still have to figure out distributor phasing, crank trigger type and polarity, etc. Pretty much the same thing as buying a pre-assembled Megasquirt and harness, IMO. The EZ-EFI is quite a bit easier to set up. I've helped a number of guys using that system figure out their charging/electrical problems that make them run like crap, however. The only thing that bothers me about this whole thread is the presumption that EZ-EFI is "always easy" or that it's any better than a plain jane carburetor. It seems a complete waste of money to me to spend EFI bucks for Carb performance with plenty of Electrical debugging headaches thrown in for good measure.

[mike343sharpstick]

I have been looking at the Fast XFI, I can, for the most part, see the point that if I move to EFI I may as well go big with a MPFI System, or just go with a tuned Carb.
As stated I do not have a Ford or a Chevy, The XFI kit for a SBC is freakin' $3,774!
The only MPFI kit I CAN get is the Edelbrock Pro-Flo, which I had looked at but it too is expensive at $3,300 clams!

For that much I suspect I could take the car down to DIYAutoTune in Suwanee, GA and have them do something spectacular.... Which I am not necessarily opposed to :/

To properly see the entire picture, what is the minimum cost of a semi-custom system from a good tuner if the owner does some of the basic preperation work (12 volt power supply and fuel system for example)?
If a guy is prepared to drop $2,300 on a new self learning TB EFI that may not be any better than a properly tuned carb... How much bigger does the piggy bank need to be to "Go Big?" if said user does not have countless hours to fiddle around.
Like anything from fixing cars to building houses, people who do it for a living are much, much faster at getting it done.

[dieselgeek]

If you did the hardware prep work (get your manifold of choice set up for injectors and rails, drilled the extruded rails at the proper spacing, etc.) you could expect around $1500-2000 for a guy like me to wire, install and tune a Megasquirt-2 or 3 based system, again provided you had the fuel and charging systems ready to go. That would include work on a loadbearing chassis dyno to get things well sorted, and any remote support you'd need after the install. That price would include the ECU and wire harness, and all the little bits that complete the harness. Not included in that figure would be the manifold, injectors, rails, fuel pump and regulator. This is a "go big, premium" rate IMO.

[mike343sharpstick]

Thank you! That right there is good info.

The only thing that bothers me about this whole thread is the presumption that EZ-EFI is "always easy" or that it's any better than a plain jane carburetor.

Let me address your presumptions.

First, I by no means presume that EZ-EFI, Atomic and the like are "always easy". You can simply go to the manufacturer site forums to read about the problems that are occurring. That's a big part of why I posted here in a 'neutral' forum. Personally I am very sceptical of sales speak, I deal with it almost every day.

Secondly, I agree that a perfectly tuned carb will perform the same, or very similar, as a properly tuned EFI-TB unit. However, getting a perfectly tuned carb also has a Cost assiciated to it.