Lunch Money Lightning - Late model 460

[BBR]

Just in case you start thinking you *might* could use older headers on those heads.... You can't. Haha

[Beagle]

Roger that! A lesson learned years ago... I bought new style F350 headers for an '88 F150 I was thinking about dropping a mid 70's bbf in. I didn't know the port shape had changed. I looked at a D3 gasket, the new gasket(e7, did they change again?) and went... OOOPS. It was some clearance deal I couldn't pass up, and not a huge issue at the time. They didn't get returned. I'm bad about that. I did some drawings about the same time (gawd, close to 10 years) using both gaskets to make a spacer plate that would merge the two shapes. That never happened either... now if I can actually find those headers, I'll admit they played a role in the decision for an EFI motor.

From a budget point, I'm calling it 250 either way. The SuperShops equivalent of New "old" headers (Hedman entry level) are around 250 but looking at this new head, I don't think I will be using old style heads. I am liking what I'm seeing. ScottyJ calling the mildly ported lower EFI intake with a carb roughly the equivalent of a Performer was all I needed to hear about it. If it needs more help, add boost! I have been eyeballing 521 kits and keep coming back to boost.

I really can't wait to get the heads off this mill - extremely curious what the bores look like. There's still a '68 model Lincoln 460 (basically a D0ve head 10.5 - 11:1 motor) in the papers for 275.00 and if I send her to her aunt's...You could take that, a ZF, the 1500 FBM truck, and get some attention...it's like a sickness that costs less than the therapy that can't fix it.

The odds of finding that are not that good nationwide I guess. The odds of finding a later model EFI motor are damn good. I almost think a F250/350 donor truck and sell the leftovers for scrap... they are not really expensive here.

[Beagle]

Just in case you start thinking you *might* could use older headers on those heads.... You can't. Haha

wait... What's all that black stuff on your manifold?

[STINEY]

I can send you these flanges if they help in any way. They are off of 460 E-350 headers I bought to do a flange swap to run on a 500 Cadillac. I have no use for them in any case and am doing a minor barn purge of my own.

A lesson learned years ago... I bought new style F350 headers for an '88 F150 I was thinking about dropping a mid 70's bbf in. I didn't know the port shape had changed. I looked at a D3 gasket, the new gasket(e7, did they change again?) and went... OOOPS. It was some clearance deal I couldn't pass up, and not a huge issue at the time. They didn't get returned. I did some drawings using both gaskets to make a spacer plate that would merge the two shapes. That never happened either... now if I can actually find those headers, I'll admit they played a role in the decision for an EFI motor. .

[cstmwgn]

... There's still a '68 model Lincoln 460 (basically a D0ve head 10.5 - 11:1 motor) in the papers for 275.00....

I have a set of reworked C8s on my old truck motor. They are not a bad option, screw in studs - small chambers - good quench pads. They do need to be messaged and bigger valves are helpful.

[Beagle]

(typically late by a few days) - Results of the two minute drill this morning. It sits level, must be better Chinesium than SBG buys. If it demonstrates any tendency to roll over I'll drill a lock pin through it.

I took the FEAD off first, guess that is cheating. More later but it's already oven toasty so maybe much later. Wish I had taken the FEAD off before going and buying bolts because guess what size the bolts holding the A/C and P/S brackets are? Yah. 7/16-14 x 5.5" , in other words, the bolts to hold it to the engine stand. They would be too big for my other stands, but the would have been perfect for this one.

[DanStokes]

(typically late by a few days) - Results of the two minute drill this morning. It sits level, must be better Chinesium than SBG buys. If it demonstrates any tendency to roll over I'll drill a lock pin through it.

I took the FEAD off first, guess that is cheating. More later but it's already oven toasty so maybe much later. Wish I had taken the FEAD off before going and buying bolts because guess what size the bolts holding the A/C and P/S brackets are? Yah. 7/16-14 x 5.5" , in other words, the bolts to hold it to the engine stand. They would be too big for my other stands, but the would have been perfect for this one.

The only thing I don't like about my version of that stand is that there's a ton of backlash in the geared head. Is yours like that?

Dan

[Beagle]

I haven't really noticed yet, but every picture here for a while has an empty beer package in it.. how much can you trust my judgement?

[DanStokes]

Not at all! But then I'm not sure I trust mine.

Dan

[Beagle]

Not at all! But then I'm not sure I trust mine.

Dan

3/4 turn of slop on that gear... sound about right? I would have junked a lawnmower over that in the 80's. Then again, it's 63:1 according to them, so it's STILL sloppy. lol.

I am worried about this motor, who pulls something where the water passages look like this? Oh... all the water pump bolts came out without breaking. I'm not believing that, but...





For FGZ'inc, late trucks came with oil coolers (lower right of picture is part of it.)

[BBR]

Those oil coolers are junk. Make it go away!

[Beagle]

Y'all are right, the gear slop on that stand is not really acceptable. I can live with it for right now but for the money spent, that needs to change. boo. Stand fits under the hoist nice though, Yay.






and a bad picture is better than no picture. Still quite a bit of hatch and the ridge barely catches my fingernail. I couldn't get a picture of it, but this is pretty much already zero decked. There's not a lot of carbon on the pistons, I'd say .002 with them clean. I'm kind of stoked!

Since I was here anyway, in case you haven't see the dual plane lower EFI, it really is a low rise dual plane. I'd give some thought to this this for a flat hood stealth situation.



I think the EGR contaminates one side more than the other though.

[DanStokes]

Y'all are right, the gear slop on that stand is not really acceptable.

I never really looked into tightening mine up. I suppose anything is possible but I never think about it until I have a project on the stand and then I'm doing engine work and am not in the mood to tear the stand apart. So it lives on just like it is. When I have my very own shop slave I'll put him/her on it.

Dan

[Beagle]

I'm not pulling it apart with 500 something pounds on it, that's for sure! lol.

I'm pretty sure even this mamby-cam is gonna need new springs. I thought about Comp 926 springs, 109 @ 1.800 , 317 @ 1.3 , cam is .536 and the spring is a 450 lb spring so I'm a little confused on how to math that but I think it's around 330-350 open (their math doesn't work for me). Seems like maybe more than needed for a cam that will be very likely be done by 5100 or so? From memory, that's about where the computer shifted it with the 351 also.

Some of the 460ford.com guys come up with a PBM 3100 recommendation for similar cams within a few degrees and nobody screams foul. It's an Erson spring that is probably 50 pounds less or more (less) open (275) and reportedly good for a .550 lift. - it's a 300 pound spring rate.

One other thought - this may see boost before the story is done... 7 pounds or so.

[Beagle]

I'm ordering a Moates Quarterhorse and new solenoids to make the '93 E4OD match the '95 wiring harness. It's going to break the budget by about 400.00 but I'm tired of thinking about it. The EFI headers are not 250 either, they're 430 and though I bought them years ago for around 250 as I remember it, if I had to buy them today, they would be 430.00 ... also, the cam I paid 40.00 for off of ebay is about 125.00 with lifters from Elgin now, so the cost to reproduce this deal would be higher. I had to buy a couple of other things - flexplate, backing plate, flex plate bolts. Fail. These things happen. I'll stick the whole budget in here eventually but it's right at 1900 bucks with real world right now pricing.

New 9:1 2.5 cc pistons and rings and dingle ball hone the '74 motor with a cam and an old Torker II , holley 750 would have come in under 1500, closer to 1300. No OD and it does have 4.10's. I bet it saves the difference in gas pretty quick.

Carb'ing the EFI would have come in right at 1500 with a Microsquirt to handle the E4OD.

I suspect you can run the E4OD without the rest of the fuel injection stuff hooked up to the factory computer, but not I'm going to pursue that right now. If the EFI doesn't make me grin, I'll revisit this whole deal. I've actually been approved by the boss to get a plug and play PiMPXShift (Megasquirt with Microsquirt daughter card for the E40d) though and if we go that way, the budget is hammered flat (1400.00 and a few options but it's pretty slick) but then... it'd need heads, intake, more cam, more converter, might as well go 521 or 545 inches... Nothing is cheap at that point.

It's time to lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way.

/edit - oh, one thing the Quarterhorse gives me is the ability to read EEC-IV and EEC-V computers. The newer computers are cheap and MAF which would put up with more shenanigans... but I've got an EEC-IV from a '96 something that I can't find out anything about. I know it's speed density, but that's really about it. If it is an automatic computer, that would let me play with the E4OD without running the injectors, which would be interesting to know (winter project). If the computer is in Limp you don't get solenoid control but is that because the EFI is in limp, or the solenoids are failing causing the transmission control to limp? I would like to know. I actually considered putting some resistors across the injector harness to emulate a load and see if the trans control still worked... I am also still wondering if Microsquirt is sending PWM to the pressure control solenoid / valve and just doing it at a high frequency. I wasn't completely happy with that idea, it's supposed to be just current controlled, opens another can of worms.