Pure Oxygen injection as opposed to Nitrous Oxide?

[squirrel]

Is it electrical? so it would just be the draw on the alternator?

Most likely. I'm just wondering how much energy it takes to concentrate oxygen, assuming you're running it continously. In a locomotive application, you'd probably go thru a lot of bottles of O2

[TC]

I wonder how much energy the oxygen separator uses?

Not sure but they make Portable ones.........

I searched, "medical oxygen concentrator" and all sorts of stuff came up....... And hey their no more expensive than a nitrous system.......

[TheSilverBuick]

I wonder how much energy the oxygen separator uses?

Not looking for perpetual energy, just looking to see better thermal efficiency. Like a super charger, the super charger takes energy to run but the return on power is greater. This case, I'd expect the oxygen scrubber to be the supercharger. Some kind of new technology must be more efficient than the older scrubbing method. Or maybe its just no one has tried this method and type of precise control.

[jcharliem]

...I blew it on a lit cigarette and - the cigarette blew out. are you guys sure this stuff is any more dangerous than nitrous oxide? There seemed to be a lot of people here TOTALLY SURE that I was goiing to blow shit up, and NONE of that happened...

I'm no chemist... yet, the cigarette only blew out because oxygen is not flammable. Oxygen by itself will not burn. Now mix it with a source of fuel, and things can get a little hairy.

I'm not surprised nothing blew. Although, blowing shit up is pretty high on the cool meter.

[squirrel]

How pure does the medical concentrator make the oxygen?

How long would it run to make as much oxygen as there is in a full nitrous sized bottle?

[nickleone]

Most likely. I'm just wondering how much energy it takes to concentrate oxygen, assuming you're running it continously. In a locomotive application, you'd probably go thru a lot of bottles of O2

Squirrel,
I don't have numbers for a small system but in a past life I worked on nitrogen concentrators. They were used on ships and drilling rigs to supress fires. The units we built were using 25 to 30 hp compressors to suck air thru a nitrogen membrane and seperate the
nitrogen from the O2. Remember we were filling ship holds etc. and producing large volumes of nitrogen. O2 was a byproduct of the process. I did none of the technical stuff just piping wires controls etc. We had engineers that gave us the plans for the MAGIC that happened.

Nick

[oldsman496]

How pure does the medical concentrator make the oxygen?

How long would it run to make as much oxygen as there is in a full nitrous sized bottle?

allot of variables here...so..... Basically you pump regular air into a canister containing a specially designed substance that will either absorb oxygen or nitrogen (or any kind of gas). once that substance is 'full' you can vaccum the oxygen (or whatever) out of it ( and into a different container), or pressurize it, and blow the oxygen (or whatever) out of it.... this all depends on how your machine works... and there are different machines for different gasses that work in different ways. but the substance that does the work is called a zeolite, and it is (simply put) a 'sponge' that is designed to hold only one kind of element...argon...hydrogen... neon... oxygen...nitrogen...helium...carbon dioxide... anything that is contained in the air we all breathe... and you have different zeolites designed for each of these elements... a filter kind of like... so to speak. How efficient your machine is, how much of whatever (by percent) you got in your air to begin with and how big is your machine, all contribute to how fast your gonna get however much ya need....by using different stages of 'filtering'...running the gasses through multiple 'layers' of zeolites will determine how pure your gas will be. most medical oxygen concentrators today are able to provide better than 90% pure oxygen.. I would assume that since this system is supporting computer controlled combustion, (ASSume) that the purity would be a critical factor for consistent tuning and therefore it would need to be better than a medical grade machine... your lungs are fairly forgiving....

there are folks out here who know this stuff MUCH better than i do , so Please Correct where i've not gotten this right.....?

[Caveman Tony]

Nice job Scott.

I am very happy to hear they are NOT using LOX. That stuff is scary.



Side note: just curious how big the "onboard O2 generator" system was, packaging size etc...

[dieselgeek]

Side note: just curious how big the "onboard O2 generator" system was, packaging size etc...

Small. About the size of a backpack that you'd stuff your laptop in.

[65longroof]

allot of variables here...so..... Basically you pump regular air into a canister containing a specially designed substance that will either absorb oxygen or nitrogen (or any kind of gas). once that substance is 'full' you can vaccum the oxygen (or whatever) out of it ( and into a different container), or pressurize it, and blow the oxygen (or whatever) out of it.... this all depends on how your machine works... and there are different machines for different gasses that work in different ways. but the substance that does the work is called a zeolite, and it is (simply put) a 'sponge' that is designed to hold only one kind of element...argon...hydrogen... neon... oxygen...nitrogen...helium...carbon dioxide... anything that is contained in the air we all breathe... and you have different zeolites designed for each of these elements... a filter kind of like... so to speak. How efficient your machine is, how much of whatever (by percent) you got in your air to begin with and how big is your machine, all contribute to how fast your gonna get however much ya need....by using different stages of 'filtering'...running the gasses through multiple 'layers' of zeolites will determine how pure your gas will be. most medical oxygen concentrators today are able to provide better than 90% pure oxygen.. I would assume that since this system is supporting computer controlled combustion, (ASSume) that the purity would be a critical factor for consistent tuning and therefore it would need to be better than a medical grade machine... your lungs are fairly forgiving....

there are folks out here who know this stuff MUCH better than i do , so Please Correct where i've not gotten this right.....?

That's a pretty good summary oldsman! A couple of minor adjustments to make it technically correct, please take no offense, you did a great job...

Zeolites are adsorbents, not absorbents. Sponges are absorbents because they will change size as they absorb a material (water). Zeolites are adsorbents because their physical size stays the same when the material (gas) is adsorbed onto it. There are pores in a zeolite that allow the gas to penetrate into it. Therefore, a zeolite is not specific to a gas, but particular to a certain size of gas that can fit into the pore. If two gases are close in size, there can be competitive adsorption taking place, impeding the desired result. You are right that layered beds will remove multiple gases, but, it will also remove moisture from the air. Moisture is an enemy to the performance of a zeolite. Water is very strongly held on zeolites and will take up the pores where the gas is supposed to go.
Also, you can have various ways to desorb (remove gas from) the zeolite. You mentioned vacuum, it's also possible to do it with only pressure changes, say from 80 psig to atmospheric (~14.7 psig) thereby eliminating the need for a vacuum pump. Another technique is using temperature changes. Zeolites will take on more gas at lower temperatures so that if you increase the temperature, the zeolite will release the gas essentially regenerating or activating it. Catalysts on the other hand, usually work better at elevated temperatures and mostly involve a chemical reaction.
To give an example of adsorption that might put it in easier terms is, I could take an empty vessel of say 1 quart and fill it with a gas at a certain pressure. This will hold "x" amount of gas. I can then fill that same exact 1 quart vessel with a zeolite and pressurize it to the same pressure of the same gas and it will hold MUCH more of that gas than the empty vessel. It's a hard concept to grasp and I struggled with it when I started my job, but it's been very interesting and I've learned a lot.

Sorry for rambling on, but you did ask...

[oldsman496]

Sorry for rambling on, but you did ask...

And this is how I learn.... Thankyou. feel free to ramble as much as you like...i live for this stuff.... science is awsum duuuuude!

fur shur...