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Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

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  • #31
    Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

    Originally posted by fast Ed
    I know it's tight for P/V clearance, but lots of people have used E7TE heads on 86 pistons ... that has always been a popular swap for the unfortunate 86 owners.

    If I run the 86 engine, it will either be completely as is, other than giving it an external cleaning and swapping over the 87-up style intake plenum, OR, I will give it a go with the fresh set of E7 heads I have as extras.

    A 331 would be nice, but if I want to run the car legally in VARAC vintage racing, that would be a no-no. The SCCA Escort Endurance series rules from 1989 called for a pretty much stock engine. I'm not looking for huge power in this car anyway, a strong stocker with some bolt-ons will be quick enough, and reliable. I can scare myself easily enough at Mosport through the 80 - 100 mph corners, without worrying about additional speed on the straights. :D


    cheers
    Ed N.
    They cheat like hell out here in Vintage racing. My hat is off to you for playing within the rules. Good show!

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

      Originally posted by fast Ed
      I know it's tight for P/V clearance, but lots of people have used E7TE heads on 86 pistons ... that has always been a popular swap for the unfortunate 86 owners.

      If I run the 86 engine, it will either be completely as is, other than giving it an external cleaning and swapping over the 87-up style intake plenum, OR, I will give it a go with the fresh set of E7 heads I have as extras.

      A 331 would be nice, but if I want to run the car legally in VARAC vintage racing, that would be a no-no. The SCCA Escort Endurance series rules from 1989 called for a pretty much stock engine. I'm not looking for huge power in this car anyway, a strong stocker with some bolt-ons will be quick enough, and reliable. I can scare myself easily enough at Mosport through the 80 - 100 mph corners, without worrying about additional speed on the straights. :D


      cheers
      Ed N.
      I was looking for the .080 (i) to .100 (e) typical for a 6000 redline with stock rods, so I put the both a 40p and an e7 on my E6 lower end without a head gasket to get an idea since I'm wanting to use a ~.550 / 224* or so cam (whatever a XE274 comp is). Wham - even with the stock cam. I figured it should clear since the gasket is maybe .041-.045 ... this is a real zero deck block though, so I guess that would be close to .015 or so with an uncut deck (depending on stackup , I know, but most of them I've looked at are about around .015 or so in the hole stock.

      Isky had a tool they would rent for modding the reliefs, but I'm bad about returning rental tools so I thought maybe I'd have a go at making a tool for it.

      I've always had a bit of visual issue with how the closing event impacts this. I tend to worry more about the later closing event on the intake than the lift, but since I was goofing around with spares anyway, I went ahead with rolling it over. The head wasn't super tight so it would have lifted it before breaking anything. I watched the lifter plunger compress maybe .010 or so before it finished. It may just be my junk - the E7's have never been decked to my knowlege - it was completely stock when I pulled it down years ago. I can't speak to the 40p's.

      Unless my math is screwed (and it's possilbe, I get ate up by dumbass every now and then) the intake would be at best .030 with a felpro gasket, maybe .045 or so with an uncut deck. It's just a bit tighter than I'm comfortable with.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

        Originally posted by horsewidower

        They cheat like hell out here in Vintage racing. My hat is off to you for playing within the rules. Good show!
        For me, a lot of not wanting to go with a cheater stroker engine is the cost ... I hope to have about $5K in to the car (before a cage), so spending $3K on an engine doesn't cut it. My old 87 that I used to race was the most fun and most reliable when it had a mild engine and suspension combo.

        With the VARAC G70+ category that I would be running in, it's not as much of a big deal anyway ... they have time brackets for cars of similar lap times to race against each other, since there is such a wide collection of different car types, from Showroom Stock to IMSA GT cars ... the only proviso is that they have to be from 1973 - 1989, and prepared to a specific series rule book from the correct time period ... you can't pick some of the rules from one series, and then some more favourable rules from another, on the same car prep.

        As far as the rest of the VARAC classes go for the earlier cars that are true historic or vintage racers, I can't speak to how much cheating is going on. But I do know that they strongly encourage the sportsmanship aspect of it more than anything. They are having a test day at Mosport in a few weeks, I am going to take the day off work to attend as a spectator, and meet some of the people and check out the cars.


        cheers
        Ed N.
        Ed Nicholson - Caledon Ontario - a bit NW of Toronto
        07 Mustang GT with some stuff
        88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe 5-speed

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

          Originally posted by Tom Slick

          I was looking for the .080 (i) to .100 (e) typical for a 6000 redline with stock rods, so I put the both a 40p and an e7 on my E6 lower end without a head gasket to get an idea since I'm wanting to use a ~.550 / 224* or so cam (whatever a XE274 comp is). Wham - even with the stock cam. I figured it should clear since the gasket is maybe .041-.045 ... this is a real zero deck block though, so I guess that would be close to .015 or so with an uncut deck (depending on stackup , I know, but most of them I've looked at are about around .015 or so in the hole stock.

          Isky had a tool they would rent for modding the reliefs, but I'm bad about returning rental tools so I thought maybe I'd have a go at making a tool for it.

          I've always had a bit of visual issue with how the closing event impacts this. I tend to worry more about the later closing event on the intake than the lift, but since I was goofing around with spares anyway, I went ahead with rolling it over. The head wasn't super tight so it would have lifted it before breaking anything. I watched the lifter plunger compress maybe .010 or so before it finished. It may just be my junk - the E7's have never been decked to my knowlege - it was completely stock when I pulled it down years ago. I can't speak to the 40p's.

          Unless my math is screwed (and it's possilbe, I get ate up by dumbass every now and then) the intake would be at best .030 with a felpro gasket, maybe .045 or so with an uncut deck. It's just a bit tighter than I'm comfortable with.
          Tom, thanks for the numbers, that helps. Mine will be seeing 5,600 or 5,700 tops, and that will only be on the long back straight at Mosport, where otherwise I would have to shift in to 5th for a short time. Everywhere else on track I would be shifting at around 5,200, since the engine wouldn't be pulling strong past that rpm anyway.


          thanks,
          Ed N.
          Ed Nicholson - Caledon Ontario - a bit NW of Toronto
          07 Mustang GT with some stuff
          88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe 5-speed

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

            Was busy this week with work stuff, and getting my crapper Taurus SHO ready to participate at the Solo I instructor school on Saturday, so no further progress on the car itself. But I did make a decision with regard to the engine to move things forward.

            An acquaintance from the local Mustang club was selling a clean 87-92 style OEM forged piston shortblock that had an F303 cam swapped in for what I thought was a reasonable price, $400. The big F cam won't be of use to me, since peak HP is around 6,000, I won't have the heads, intake system, or gear ratio to support that. So the plan is to pull the F303 cam and resell it, recoup some of the money spent for the shortblock, and replace it with the stock cam from the engine that came with the car. Then I can bolt on the cleaned up E7TE heads and 1.72 FMS rockers with no P-V clearance issues, and keep the 86 engine as a complete, known good runner in case a backup is needed temporarily at some point to keep the car going.

            Repainting the balancer will definitely be on the "to do" list, looks like a fairly new water pump on it as well:



            Nice clean guts:



            The seller even threw in an almost new stand from Princess Auto, which is sort of a Canadian version of Harbor Freight, and my 67 Beetle in the background:



            Tomorrow hopefully I can get back at it, give the new stove a good looking over to prepare to bolt things together to make a complete runner. Still have to finish taking parts I want to keep off my first SHO and get that car hauled away, I don't want to have too many cars hanging around when my landlord returns from wintering in Florida a few weeks from now. :rolleyes:

            Also got a few more "old school" acquisitions this week. First one was from a person on the Corral, a nice brand new in the box FMS adjustable brake prop. valve, the old cast body Kelsey-Hayes M-2328-A unit that was included with the older FMS disc brake kits. Actually got a used one from a guy on Corner-Carvers as well, and then a few days later the brand new one was offered, so I jumped on it too, $40 shipped. This will look much better to suit the theme of the car underhood than a newer billet block prop. valve would:





            The other item I got, from a friend who is a service engineer at Ford of Canada (Oakville Ontario head office), was another old FMS piece new in the package, the M-61120-A dead pedal footrest kit. I could probably have found a stock one out of a later Fox, but this is cool to have, and was $20. He even had the invoice from 1996 when he bought it from a now defunct Toronto Ford dealer for $23. Told him that something else would have been a wiser investment. LOL



            I'll post up some more as the engine starts going together.


            cheers
            Ed N.
            Ed Nicholson - Caledon Ontario - a bit NW of Toronto
            07 Mustang GT with some stuff
            88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe 5-speed

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

              Good deal! How much for the F cam? Maybe I should collect the hole alphabet?
              http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum...-consolidation

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

                Russell, I think that one of the guys at the dealership wants to grab it for his brother's 5.0. If that doesn't happen, I would consider shipping it. Generally they seem to go for $100 - $125 I've seen, depending on age and condition. Once I get it removed I'll have a better idea. When they were still in the FRPP book, they were listed as being a good blower cam, but lots of guys used them NA as well. You would need some big heads and high-flow EFI or a good carb intake to take advantage of it though.


                cheers
                Ed N.
                Ed Nicholson - Caledon Ontario - a bit NW of Toronto
                07 Mustang GT with some stuff
                88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe 5-speed

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

                  Old FMS stuff is cool. It seems like a lot of people are getting rid of the stuff they "collected" lately.
                  Jeff
                  Follow My Build

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

                    I have a water pump the same color as that damper... it came off a ... not a ford. :P :P

                    Good call on the block. I'm going to see about soldering a cutter to a valve today maybe if I can stay away from the refridgerator and seeing if a dewalt will make my reliefs for me on the 86 pistons. 8)

                    I spent this morning looking for a square fox (fairmont like) that I want to give the old school parts to and see what kind of daily it turns up as. All the old pushrod sbf stuff and fox parts are getting dirt cheap, I want to stock up before they all go away. You guys are motivating me to get more serious about it. I found an '87 Turbo Tbird that I left a message on, maybe that would be what I want. Or maybe a Pinto. Dammit. Thanks guys. ;D

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

                      Ed, it looks like you've had a score-aroma since the last I read here, sweet!

                      I've been thinking about a "dead pedal" for the Pace car but, may go the homemade root. I've had good luck with the Wilwood proportioning valve I'm using, and love having it right under my right hand. Now I just need some rear calipers with more ass.

                      The stock cam/1.7 rocker setup should make a nice power arc for what your going to do with the car, IMO. We had a couple cars in my group of friends that ran "just" 1.7 rockers, an EFI intake spacer, a small crank pulley and full drop headers, what a good package for balanced power.
                      Jeremy George in Windsor NY

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Starting a new project, 89 Mustang "back in the day" street / track day car

                        Yup, there are some good deals to be had, between the local Mustang guys in the Toronto area, who are a pretty good group, and stuff on the Corral and Corner-Carvers. Lots of pushrod stuff around for cheap, just have to snap it up when it comes available.


                        cheers
                        Ed N.
                        Ed Nicholson - Caledon Ontario - a bit NW of Toronto
                        07 Mustang GT with some stuff
                        88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe 5-speed

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Not much to report for an update, last few weeks have been busy with work and getting my SHO ready for the spring track days. Spent 3 days out at Mosport last week instructing for the local BMW club chapter, good bunch of people. Had an awesome wet seesion after lunch on Sunday, passed several of the other instructors including one piloting a 911 GT3, that was good for a chuckle. Unfortunately 3 days seems to be at least 1 day more than I can handle as I pass my 45th birthday, looks like I managed to pinch my sciatic nerve on the left side ... D'OH!!

                          Have collected a few more bits and pieces for the project, including a pair of the original style Global West caster plates, but no real progress on the car. Going to check in with a doctor this week to see what he recommends for treatment, besides anti-inflammatories and stretching.


                          cheers
                          Ed N.
                          Ed Nicholson - Caledon Ontario - a bit NW of Toronto
                          07 Mustang GT with some stuff
                          88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe 5-speed

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Ever try an inversion table thingy? You know the ones you strap your ankles into and then flip yourself upside down in?

                            I was staring down the barrel at back surgery, was being immobilized about every 3-4 months, and the chiropractor was no longer effective. My wife bought me an inversion thing, and I haven't had any trouble for 3 years now. Only cost her $130, WELL worth it in my case.

                            Hope you get straightened out soon, back pain bites!
                            Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Dad had something that hung on a door with weights on end of the rope, pulleys then strap around chin and back on head. Said it saved him.
                              http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum...-consolidation

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Russell View Post
                                Dad had something that hung on a door with weights on end of the rope, pulleys then strap around chin and back on head. Said it saved him.
                                hanging oneself would end the pain, don't know about whether or not the dead can tell about it afterwards - however, that kind of pain does give one thoughts like that
                                Doing it all wrong since 1966

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