NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

[horsewidower]

To say the least, I'm bummed. My theory is that first you have to build a great engine, then you can fiddle with the fuel system.

2009 JEG's Engine Masters Challenge - Friday, October 9, 2009 Sponsored by Rottler

Final Standings

1st - Team #5 Jon Kaase Racing (Almost Kaase)/Ford - 2,632.8

2nd - Team #10 B.E.S Racing Engines/Chevy - 2,631.4

3rd- Team #2 Hot Heads Research/Gene Adams Performance/Chrysler - 2,598.2

4th - Team #17 Performance Crankshaft, Inc/Chevy - 2,598.0

5th - Team #4 School of Automotive Machinists (Entry #2)/Ford - 2,585.4

6th - Team #1 Jon Kaase Racing/Ford - 2,583.2

I think Tom Habrazk (sp?) was the best EFI. One guy had a setup with both EFI and a Carb mounted. He ran the carb.

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

YOU ARE DEALING WITH SOME SMART CATS THERE
kaase has tons of IHRA championships and NHRA with dyno don
carbs vs efi ? hahaha I feel ...umm validated
those cleveland heads never give up

[dieselgeek]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

YOU ARE DEALING WITH SOME SMART CATS THERE
kaase has tons of IHRA championships and NHRA with dyno don
carbs vs efi ? hahaha I feel ...umm validated
those cleveland heads never give up

or there's the fact that all the EFI guys were low budget.

[JeffMcKC]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

There is so much more to this than it looks on the surface,,, and Geek is right building on a Motor that is already been there done that, if they would make them put it in a car and run with the same tune and fuel it would fall flat. I also think he has done some more development after 25 years than Duel Point Don.

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

maybe if they hold the contest in a freezer , or go uphill into denver in the back of a truck , maybe in the space shuttle - ooohhhh than they have a contest
efi is clearly an unecessary expense , so are hydraulic cams hahaha

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

YOU ARE DEALING WITH SOME SMART CATS THERE
kaase has tons of IHRA championships and NHRA with dyno don
carbs vs efi ? hahaha I feel ...umm validated
those cleveland heads never give up

or there's the fact that all the EFI guys were low budget.

Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.

[BBR]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

I love #3 in that list. It is a super cool motor.

Nothing like a 50+ y/o non-cookie-cutter motor design mixing it up with the best!

Carbs and EFI, each has it's place.

Spidey, go take your meds.

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

ha , go take your sniffer test

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

efi is for emissions- carburetors are for racin

[dieselgeek]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

efi is for emissions- carburetors are for racin (where EFI isn't allowed)

Fixed

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

not at all , just to pass emissions and burn money - efi -FAIL

[seanm]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??


[/quote]Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.

[/quote]

Funny Blues Brothers quote.

It doesn't look good for the EFI from this contest. Seems like this is where we are always told that EFI would blow the carbs away, on the overall curve. If all the teams with EFI were on a low budget, maybe they should have used a carb and spent more elsewhere?

I guess the best way to test EFI VS carb would be to have the carb engines switch to EFI or vice versa and see what happens.

Playing the Devil's advocate on this one, EFI or carbs are fine for me.

Continue bickering

[JeffMcKC]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

One year out is not a good test between the two.

Its only what the 3rd year on that engine for them?

It would be cool to EFI it and see what came of that so it would be a level feild, nothing can be taken from this between the two.

[horsewidower]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

Kaase and Bischoff are going to run the stuff they know, carbs. That's three of the entries. Adney Brown is going to do the same. I don't understand why the School didn't run EFI, its a school!! Dan Miller, with the hemi, toyed with an EFI system, (isn't that the guy that you tried to hook up with DG?) and settled on... WEBERS!!

I just posted it up because I thought it was interesting. I think people stuck with their experience and preference. With the exception of Dan Miller, the top of the charts are the same as most years. Those guys are just superior engine builders and experienced in getting engines to perform for the competition.

Bob

[38P]

Re: NO EFI in EMC finals. ??

Development time and manifolding are the keys. If someone had a variable geometry EFI intake on an otherwise competitive engine, the average torque should have been higher than a carb'd V8.

But EFI intake development for popular EMC engines has lagged and non-variable intakes probably don't give enough of an advantage over the wide range of EMC testing.

Just converting a carb-style intake to EFI doesn't give enough of an advantage to be worth the extra work for a dyno shoot-out.

Moreover, given that most of the builders are using EMC as a calling card for their boring 2V pushrod bracket racing engine businesses, why spend the cubic dollars to develop something that most of their customers aren't buying (yet)?

EMC didn't accept enough modern engines (e.g. DOHC Fords) to really be a valid test of EFI v. carbs, or (more interestingly) multivalves v. 2V. EMC is an invitation-only affair.

But, hey, a Ford's leading (as it should be). ;D