Lunch Money Lightning - Late model 460

[BBR]

From my truck thread:

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E4OD's are actually pretty simple from an electronic control aspect. They have 2 shift solenoids, a torque converter E4OD's are actually pretty simple from an electronic control aspect. They have 2 shift solenoids, a torque converter solenoid, a coast clutch solenoid, and an electric pressure control thingy which operates off changes in current and controls line pressure. (Imagine a valve that acts like a stereo speaker connected to DC voltage) All, except for the EPC are controlled by grounding the solenoid to activate it.

Pretty simple stuff really and if a guy had control of the EPC, you could easily set it up like a manual valve body with just a few relays or switches.

Gear.........SS1....SS2
D1.............ON.....OFF
D2.............ON.....ON
D3.............OFF.....ON
D4.............OFF.....OFF
M2.............OFF.....OFF
M1.............ON......OFF

When the trans connector is unplugged, you have M2 and 4th because these are both completely hydraulic. This is how we are driving now.

Our problem is that with the connector plugged in and manually shifting, we have M1 and M2. In D we only have D1 but with no upshift to D2, D3, etc.

If you try to shift M1, M2, then D, you are met with a "neutral" situation when expecting 3rd, like it is not applying SS2. But, you would think that would result in 4th.

I still do not have a correct VSS signal and that may totally correct everything but usually a bad VSS results in high hard shifts, but it still shifts.

I jumpered SS2 to ground with a switch while in D and it shifted to 2nd, so I know SS2 works. That was a very big relief.

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We drove ours quite a while with the trans disconnected. It just started in 2nd and then would shift to 4th.

[Beagle]

I keep forgetting about the hydraulic circuits. Thanks for the reminder, that's a lightbulb. Mark never really would sign off on higher frequency PWM for the line pressure controller but I'm thinking that's how the MS is doing it.

I've wasted more time already than it would have taken to buy a Baumann Shift - HAL 9000, the Price adapter for a 4 BBL, and be driving it.. dang rabbit holes!

Ring gap check coming up. It's going to feel quite odd looking for a .030 end gap.

[Russell]

There are a couple plug in MS on the Corral for sale. Not sure if they will work for you or how I feel about buying electrical stuff used. With the Holley bandwagon I bet there will be a good supply of older systems for sale. There were some guys on the turbo forum almost willing to give away some of the chip stuff.

https://www.corral.net/forums/electronics-and-entertainment.280/

[Beagle]

There are a couple plug in MS on the Corral for sale. Not sure if they will work for you or how I feel about buying electrical stuff used. With the Holley bandwagon I bet there will be a good supply of older systems for sale. There were some guys on the turbo forum almost willing to give away some of the chip stuff.

https://www.corral.net/forums/electr...rtainment.280/

I have mixed emotions about used stuff but the high prices for A9L's may make me want to list the unopened one of the two sitting by me. grin. Thanks for looking out for me, definitely appreciated. I wouldn't mind trying a DIY MSii / microsquirt module stuffed into a PNP box, but not right now. There are some core boxes at Location X still I think, assuming the cars are still there. I've got both ends of the connector available.

[Beagle]

I guess I needed a reset - I was thinking about somebody's Batch fire vs Sequential logic in various forums the other day and somebody came up with this bit of logic: SD fires every rotation so you effectively get twice the injector. It sounded wrong when I read it and this morning I realized why... 85% injector duty cycle is 85% on, it's firing pretty much all the time already.

I've been sweating the firing order change between the 351 and 460 using the factory computer. It occurs to me it's not really going to have time to get super fussy about fuel vapor already sitting there waiting for the valve to open. I've already done this before with a 302 truck SD with Mustang HO cam. It didn't care, This shouldn't either.

Doh... I used to know these things without having to re-over-think about them.

[Beagle]

Random - I'm brain dumping whatever I find here like a journal. This is the best picture I've found today ... wondering how close the EPC solenoid is to a GM PWM driven EPC solenoid is.

[Beagle]

I can send you these flanges if they help in any way. They are off of 460 E-350 headers I bought to do a flange swap to run on a 500 Cadillac. I have no use for them in any case and am doing a minor barn purge of my own.

Received, thank you sir!!



In the old world, you can't really flip manifolds on a D0ve / D3ve style head because the bolts aren't centered in the port height.

BBR's picture above shows what happens when you try to put a Dxxx style header on a new style head. Well guess what? You can flip these D0ve/D3ve style flanges and it looks like it will cover enough of the F3te port to seal without blocking anything else. Looks like some grinding in my future, but that opens up a whole new world of cheap headers if they will. THANKS!! I would have never tried the headers inverted but the flanges, why not? That's a preliminary finding, I'll know more later.

[STINEY]

[Beagle]

Never believe "it's got the oil drained". lol. Today's two minute drill spent cleaning up the Valdez from a "drained" block. I also met up with a couple of jerks named "Nope" this morning.

1) Pipe flanges would still need some filler to really cover the port. I have some ideas though, not a deal breaker yet.

2) One head has a munged exhaust bolt hole on the end, part of the boss crumbled off in my hands. It still has threads left, but I'm not a welder. Building up cast iron isn't what I had in mind for a "getting to know you" welding class. It might hold a stud though. It's not close to the port, and can still seal I think.

3) Ford and Exhaust ports... What the (deleted)! The late model heads have an angle bias exiting the port. On the passenger side, it's biased towards the rear of the vehicle, which means, on the driver's side, it's biased towards the front. Not a big deal, I just shook my head when I saw it. My initial take on it was "Neat!" followed immediately with "if the heads were side specific". There's a lot of money in re-tooling for new heads and the exhausts are a bunch better than the old heads. I found it curious they would still compromise it.

The EFI saga continues. If there is one thing I disliked above all else working for a software company, it was licensing. The Quarterhorse is simple. The licensing for the software I wanted was dreamed up by some lawyer named Sauron. Latest plan is to stick a Microsquirt on the E4od, since the software isn't an issue (free). I have been reading on flow control solenoids and PWM, and am about decided that a high frequency PWM signal will be suitable because it ends making an average voltage signal before the solenoid has time to react to on/off pulse.

Leaving a 750 Holley, which I'm okay with. I'm now torn between ScottyJ's carb adapter and the Price carb adapter and a sawzall / hunk of aluminum. lol. 150/135/55, respectively.

Fedex just improved my attitude though, the flywheel is here.

I went ahead and ordered a new balancer, the old one was borderline being serviceable but I've tentatively blown off the budget and it will land where it lands. Covid means my local watering hole was closed for 5 months and to be blunt, that covers significantly more money than I'm spending here. Every day I don't go in there is money and spending a little of that money and more importantly, time, in the garage is a win!

I think I'll go stick a snap gauge in the bores for giggles. I decided the Erson springs would be okay, so I ordered them too. If I go bigger cam in the future, it will have new heads to go with it.

[Beagle]

Budget redemption. https://www.pirate4x4.com/threads/ca...p-e4od.2481225

Interesting thread. Somebody on Pirate bought a hacked up Bronco where PO had taken the EFI off and gone Carb. He left the carb but used a TFI distributor and says it shifts right.

So... see if I can mount a PIP in the ChinaCo HEI distributor, TPS, MAP... sounds like a plan. It's a hall effect sensor, like a cam position sensor. The HEI still handles spark, but the computer gets it's CPS (PIP). I already have all the parts.

heads are soaking in a 27 gallon crate, I put a couple of gallons of Purple Power in there with about 20 something gallons of water. We will see how they do tomorrow. So far the scum layer at the top looks much like this:



I gave serious thought to rebar, washing soda and a battery charger - electrolysis. The valves are still in the heads though, so that got nixed. I have no idea how that would have reacted.

[BBR]

FYI from what I've learned, the EPC in the 4r70W operates in the same manner as the EPC in the E4OD. So if you have a controller that will operate a 4r70w it *should* operate an E4OD.

[Beagle]

That would open up the number of ECM's by roughly a gozillion.

[Beagle]

note to self, put a backstop on the "porting table" - unintentional budget item (assuming I can't find spares): Valve spring locks. All I can hear right now is "You'll put your eye out kid!" with this cheesy spring compressor. Maybe it's time to build a decent one.