"Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

[milner351]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

Well I was on Daddy duty last night and didn't have a chance to look at the truck.

I stopped at my friendly neighborhood shop whom I would actually trust to do work on vehicles for me.

$560 is the charge to R&R the head.... that's according to the flat rate book he showed me, 8 hours.

With all I have going on and the timeline of when I'm going to need the truck... it's tempting to have the work done even though I will hate to part with that cash.... I don't see another clear way to get it done between now and when I need it on the road.

A rebuilt head is $400 ish.

A valve is $20.

I will need head gasket and exhaust gasket either way.... they're about $25 each.


SO - do I bet the head can be re-used with a new valve - or take the safe and more expensive way and just order up the rebuilt head?????

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

I missed where you found out it was the head not the piston.... I dunno, were it me I'd buy the rebuilt 3k motor (checked ebay) and then rest easy knowing the motor isn't going to go boom. Also, if it is "just" the head you can sell the motor and recoup some of your funds. By the time you spend to R&R the head you'll be into the motor $1500... and you'll have no idea how far away the other head or piston is away from failure - after all, it is an almost 200k mile motor... my philosophy is spend the dollars on the cars I need to rely on; cheap out on the race cars because their natural habitat is a trailer. ;)

[milner351]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

I still don't know for sure if it's the head or piston - I'm going several inputs, since I can't find a bore scope to fit - and don't think $200 plus for a scope - while a neat tool to have - would be a worthwhile investment.

I ordered up the gaskets, bolts and an intake and exhaust valve from rockauto.

I won't have $1500 into a head R&R -- if I do it myself I could get away as cheap as $150, if it's just a bent valve and the head can be saved. If I need a new head - add $400 - $500.

Labor to R&R if I have my friends shop do it is $560 - that's the charge whether or not I need to replace the head.

I hear you on the engine replacement - but that's WAY WAY more time than a head replacement - and I don't have that time or money right now. Also - these engines are routinely hitting 400k miles without anything but regular maintenance - so I have no reason to believe there is any issue with the other bank - I got no misifre codes from any cylinder but #8 after the rebuilt injectors went in.

It's supposed to rain all weekend - I may just tear into it - even if I have to have it towed to my friends shop to finish it up - I will be ahead a few labor hour charges anyway.

[JOES66FURY]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

The problem with #7 is that once the effects wear off, the other 6 are still staring you in the face. Alcohol never fixes anything!

I say pull the head and see what you have. If you can find a doc, the medical 'scopes are pretty small and I suspect would fit in there. Call your Olympus rep and see if they have a medical trade-in you can try. The guy I dealt with at EPA would lend you his wife if he thought it MIGHT lead to a sale. We had a borrowed 'scope for over a year and never did buy one. Worth a try.

Dan

Olympus and evergreen make scopes small enough...you need a flex scope, a rigid will not work...If you were here I would scope it for you at work...

[milner351]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

Well - necessity required me to put the truck back together again so I can drive it in it's 7 cylinder configuration for a while until I can sort some things out - I left the electrical connector to the #8 injector unplugged, it's no longer throwing fuel into a cylinder that can't combust it.

Here's what I did before assembly.

Wet compression test - a few squirts of oil down the glow plug hole followed by another compression check --- SAME result as dry -
I believe this indicates that the problem is most likely NOT with the rings / piston.

I also then attempted to determine which path the compression is leaking by putting compressed air through the glow plug hole.... this was inconclusive - I could not feel or hear air coming out of the exhaust, intake, or crank case.

Photo-bucket is having issues - after multiple attempts to load pictures in an effort to appease those folks that are complaining about the Michigan folks and our lack of pictures...... however - I was only able to load ONE. >

This is why I'm pretty confident that it's a valve issue --- take a close look at the damage on the compressor wheel that was on the truck when I got it compared to the new one I replaced it with..... not good.



I started it with the #8 unplugged - there was very very little smoke out the tail pipe at start up - then absolutely no smoke out the tail pipe while it was idling after the cold start --- this proves to me that ALL the smoke it was throwing out before was due to the #8 not firing - this also gives me some confidence that the other cylinders are in good shape.

Before assembling the intake plumbing - I let it run a while with the CCV open -- I took a couple action shots of the blow by smoke pouring out of the CCV--- the turbo is being adequately oiled - which unfortunately means that my inner cooler is probably got a good film of oil in it - but there's nothing I can do about that now.

I'll try photobucket again tomorrow, I've already rebooted my pc, and unplugged the router and modem to reset them - the problem aint in house.

[just_james]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

what about taking it to Ford and getting paying the $75 inspection fee or whatever? I'm sure they've got a borescope that would fit in there, and then you'd know at least what you're dealing with.

[milner351]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

James - if I could figure out how to have a borescope inspection done for $75 - I would.

The problem is - $75 is just a computer diagnostic fee - if they actually have to take anything apart to do the diagnosis... well then that is where the $100+ per hour fees start to add up.


Is there a tool rental online place? That's a great business idea - if folks like us need a special tool - do it like the autoparts stores do - but for quality tools and specialty stuff, not offshore knock offs that break if you look at them wrong....
- pay for it on your card online - and get reimbursement minus some rental fee upon return.....
I'd be willing to pay a rental fee to get a hold of the proper borescope to look down in this engine, but I'm not willing to pay $250 or more to buy one.

[just_james]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

My bad, didn't realize that was only for the computer diagnostic. What about a leak down test? Does anyone make an adapter for a 7.3?

[milner351]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

I did repeat the compression test after squirting oil down the cylinder - no change - still 140psi.

After much deliberation - I decided to have the only pro I'd trust to work on my stuff have a stab at it.

The truck is there waiting for him to open it up Monday - he has the gaskets bolts and valves I got from Rockauto Saturday afternoon.

With any luck - the problem is a valve or two - the head can be saved (maybe a new seat or two?) and the piston / rings / cylinder are good enough to keep running as is. A few dents in the piston crown won't bother me - but ring / cylinder sealing issues and I'm up a creek.

Here are the shots I was trying to load a few days back....

With #8 injector unplugged - NO smoke out the tail pipe - just a puff at cold start --- hopefully this is evidence the rest of the cylinders are in good shape -- this picture is with it running probably 30 seconds after I started it from cold.



Here is a shot of the blowby - keep in mind this thing is 17.5 : 1 compression and turbo charged - they have ALOT more blowby even new than a gas engine .... but this is still concerning to me...




In other news

- with my truck shipped off to more talented mechanics - I turned my attention to the old 90hp mercury outboard on the back of our trusty '78 crest pontoon.... it's an inline 6 cylinder with 3 carbs and distributorless ignition.
Thankfully I found the genuine service manual online - and with it - I was able to troubleshoot and find the stator needed to be replaced - which required the purchase of a flywheel pulling tool to get the job done.
After replacing the stator - amazingly enough - she fired to life and ran OK--- but on a quick test ride - something was still wrong.

Then I went through the long and tedious task of "carburetor / ignition synchronization" I've already rebuild all three carbs, replaced the floats, and rebuilt the fuel pump. The throttle linkage is straight - no progression - it's basically a rod that connects all three carbs. On that rod there is a cam which actuates the rod which rotates the trigger with relation to the stator which changes the ignition timing.

The synchro process starts by confirming the timing pointer is in the right spot - requiring a dial indicator to set the #1 piston .464 in the hole - and matching the pointer to that mark on the flywheel.... Check.
Then - with all the plugs removed and a timing light hooked up - spin the engine with the throttle linkage on the idle stop, while confirming the "pickup" timing is between 1-3 btdc on the flywheel - adjusting a screw to make it so - then locking it with a nut.
Next step is to set the timing for WOT - holding the throttle linkage at WOT (after confirming wot on the linkage is in fact WOT in the carbs - another adjuster screw / lock nut operation) spin the engine with the starter while adjusting the high advance screw to 20 BTDC... and once again locking it down with the nut.

After all this joyous activity over water in direct sun trying to read a timing light flash while not ripping off flesh with a spinning flywheel inches from the adjustment screws....
it's time to start it - warm it up - and adjust the carbs for idle.... IN GEAR -- yea - that means the boat wants to move while doing all this adjustment.

I think I know now why outboard mechanics charge so much.

After all this damned thing starts instantly and runs pretty good - but there still some misfire / gurgling / fatness / weirdness depending on throttle angle under load.
SO
I'm going to replace the spark plugs, run it again, and most likely have to go through the synchro process one more time to see if that will make things run a bit more smoothly.

At least we got out on the water - and gave Lee his first boat ride... albeit a short one.

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

Looks like the Blow-by I had until I unpluged the injector and sparkplug :P

One question though, how would poor valve sealing lead to greater blowby? Wouldn't that be a ring issue? (or in my case headgasket :P) The valve guides maybe worn and it's excess boost? Or I'm missing something.

Don't you just love carb syncronization? Hated it on my old Motorcycle but I could do it. Cool that you got out there though.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

now you know why they do those adjustments with the motor off the boat and in a barrel of water ;D

Personally, I like seeing the guy leaning over the back of his boat doing those adjustments..... but I'm a sicko thus I'm waiting for accelleration, followed by a splash, then the sound of "hey, look that boat is taking off without a driver." ;D

[milner351]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

Yea- I hear you - I do notice the timing screws are on the front of the engine -
so they could be adjusted while under way -
it would be easier in a sport boat - instead of our pontoon - which admittedly is not the ideal set up for this engine - but at $700 for a like new engine which I only have about $950 in now total - I can't complain - new outboards are really pricey. IF I can make this one run well dependably - I would not hesitate moving it to a newer pontoon, since the price of new ones are reduced drastically if you don't want a new engine to go with it!

[DirtyWhiteBoy]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

Good call John I would have let him do it too for the price.........I hope it is just a valve or gasket


On the boating front mine ruptured an oil cooling line and pumped around 8-10 qts of racing oil onto the bilge. What a mess, I just got the new braided line to make the new lines....just hope I didn't hurt it.
I'm pretty happy that my bilge pumps are not auto, and did not pump that into the lake.

[milner351]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

Good call John I would have let him do it too for the price.........I hope it is just a valve or gasket


On the boating front mine ruptured an oil cooling line and pumped around 8-10 qts of racing oil onto the bilge. What a mess, I just got the new braided line to make the new lines....just hope I didn't hurt it.
I'm pretty happy that my bilge pumps are not auto, and did not pump that into the lake.

EEEEECK! what kind of gauge / warnings do you have set up? I noticed while working on the old "black stack" that there is a brass pipe plug on the head - a perfect spot for a temp gauge - it's only on what started life for me as a $600 '78 crest pontoon - but the engine is worth way more than the boat - so - I think I will put a temp gauge on it to be safe.... every weed bed is a threat to clogging those water inlets.

I hope you get your boat up and going soon - man - cleaning that bilge must have been no fun at all! Yea - the EPA tickets for putting several quarts overboard would not have been good!

I have not heard from the shop yet about my truck --- another guy pointed out that it could just be a bent pushrod hanging a valve open - which is possible - I hope I would have noticed such a thing - but maybe not.... that would be a pleasant surprise though!

I hope to have pictures once Chuck gets it apart.... hopefully NOT revealing piston / bore carnage!

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: "Lee's Limo" 2001 F350 crew cab 4x4 diesel

Two happiest days in a boat owner's life. The day they buy the boat..... and the day they sell it. The rest of time time they're a hole in the water, into which, you pour money.

I sold my last boat in 2001 (I have a penchant for flat bottom jets) and I think that boat cured me.... well, in all honesty, I have been looking at cabin cruisers - but those are different, right?

New outboards are breathtakingly expensive (5000 or more) ... so 950 for an outboard is nearly a steal.